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Control

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Mist said:
I'm going off data and arguments from someone who has funded literally over 1000 startups as their fulltime job. That's what VCs do, they fund startups knowing that 17 out of every 20 will fail and disappear into oblivion, 2 will break even and hope the 20th pays off bigly. I am not going to argue with someone who does this as their job. Feel free.

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Do as he says, not as he does?
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Ukerric

Ukerric

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popsicledeath said:
Sure, just because a company fails with DEI doesn't mean it failed because of it.
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Not, but it's almost certain that it was at least some factor in failure.

We all know what DEI means: "Didn't Earn It". DEI means you voluntarily dropped your workplace efficiency and capacity in the pursuit of quotas to satisfy your investors, but meant zero thing for your consumers, and they're the ones that will make your company successful in the end - the investors make it possible, the consumers are those that make it viable.

It's even worse if you do DEI in your product, not just the workplace. Because DEI is attempting to pull in minority groups that otherwise wouldn't have come to your product, and guess what? Even more of a minority of that minority is going to come around to your product just because you added DEI stuff. And at the other end, at best it is neutral, at worst, you actively removed

I think the company that focus on DEI on the products are the ones who really fail "because of it". Those who do it in the workplace simply reduce their margin of safety, by expanding their costs at no benefit. The "he/him - writes code" meme. They fail when the rest isn't quite there, and they didn't have the right people to salvage the situation. They might have gotten those people without DEI, they might not have gotten those; it's just that DEI hiring torpedoed their chances of surviving small failures.
 
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Seananigans

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Ukerric said:
Not, but it's almost certain that it was at least some factor in failure.

We all know what DEI means: "Didn't Earn It". DEI means you voluntarily dropped your workplace efficiency and capacity in the pursuit of quotas to satisfy your investors, but meant zero thing for your consumers, and they're the ones that will make your company successful in the end - the investors make it possible, the consumers are those that make it viable.

It's even worse if you do DEI in your product, not just the workplace. Because DEI is attempting to pull in minority groups that otherwise wouldn't have come to your product, and guess what? Even more of a minority of that minority is going to come around to your product just because you added DEI stuff. And at the other end, at best it is neutral, at worst, you actively removed

I think the company that focus on DEI on the products are the ones who really fail "because of it". Those who do it in the workplace simply reduce their margin of safety, by expanding their costs at no benefit. The "he/him - writes code" meme. They fail when the rest isn't quite there, and they didn't have the right people to salvage the situation. They might have gotten those people without DEI, they might not have gotten those; it's just that DEI hiring torpedoed their chances of surviving small failures.
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You can only have one top priority and it’s either competence or something else.

DEI is something else. It’s not fucking rocket surgery to evaluate this. It definitely has a major hand in the decline.
 
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popsicledeath

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That's why I call out the "can't prove it was the sole reason a company failed" argument. It's existance at all is a contributing factor, from there it's only a discussion of how much fault.

And it's why DEI with government funding, subsidies and perhaps big enough corporate entities in tech and gaming is so dangerous. They can absorb a lot of extra bullshit when they have a lot of funding and other people are being forced to pay for fail-inducing programs, as with government involvement, or are exploiting historical funding.

Don't want to pay for DEI in gaming? It's too late. Years of supporting and helping build the tech and gaming industry is now using our funds as their personal social and political piggy banks. And their goal, in part, is to demonize and exclude the very demographic that funded them... And in the name of inclusion.

Which is why so many gamers are not wanting to face the problem. It's yet another gigantic fuck you to the gamers who helped build and support the industry. So much cognitive dissonance avoidance you have straight white gamers mocking others for caring about a hobby they've spent their lives doing and funding.

Why I think it's frequently the biggest and most important news in gaming and the industry and avoiding the discussion of censoring it like reddit mods is very ironically part of the problem.
 
TomServo

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Seananigans said:
You can only have one top priority and it’s either competence or something else.

DEI is something else. It’s not fucking rocket surgery to evaluate this. It definitely has a major hand in the decline.
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Que mist to come in and tanoomba a long fucking insufferable post.
 
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Cinge

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I'm chuckling at the apparent powerless mods. Came in twice to move the conversation else where and they were just ignored and outright laughed at, with conversation carrying on as is.
 
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Chris

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DEI is just the latest incarnation of management fads, big companies and government have been fucking up all along when they get bad management who look to books and consultants to help them cope.

It's taken a more prominent and darker turn because it's also the latest incarnation of leftist religion replacement and sanctimony.

It's become a critical issue to stop because it's the latest incarnation of the right using morality to push something bad they want, in this case infinity migration to drive down wages.

So really it's the nexus of a whole lot of toxic behaviour by a lot of different factions.
 
Control

Control

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Cinge said:
I'm chuckling at the apparent powerless mods. Came in twice to move the conversation else where and they were just ignored and outright laughed at, with conversation carrying on as is.
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Tbh, I don't notice what thread I'm in much of the time since conversations almost always end up back at the same few root causes.

To get back on topic, I'll actually agree with Mist for once:
Mist said:
Indies can do whatever the fuck they want. If you want to make Black Queer Dad Dating Simulator and not hire any white people, I don't give a shit, the Steam charts will gladly figure that problem out for you.
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True indies are really the solution to almost all issues in gaming. Tiny teams can make whatever they want, with whoever they want, without being beholden to anyone other than their audience. Technically, they also have to keep Steam happy, but practically speaking, that's not much of a problem at the moment. Although I hope gaben is investing plenty of his steambux into staying alive since I doubt that Steam as we know it will last long without him.
 
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popsicledeath

popsicledeath

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Cinge said:
I'm chuckling at the apparent powerless mods. Came in twice to move the conversation else where and they were just ignored and outright laughed at, with conversation carrying on as is.
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Off topic. Should be posted in the amod thread. Consider yourself reported!

The discussion is carrying on, but even I take note and try to dial back the thread shitting a bit when they come into a thread. I get that a lot of people don't want to hear it and mods get annoyed at then getting bitched at (I presume). And I'm thankful our mods aren't reddit Nazis.

That said, the same discussions keep happening, and it's possible it's because they're relevant discussions and will keep happening.

Often when the complaining about the discussion dies down the discussion isn't as painful as the bitching about it happening ever was.
 
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Denamian

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Cinge said:
I'm chuckling at the apparent powerless mods. Came in twice to move the conversation else where and they were just ignored and outright laughed at, with conversation carrying on as is.
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I'm *this* close to at least temp thread banning people. A studio closes and the owner blames it on employees leaking info to the press? Goddamn that DEI boogeyman did it again! Let's shit up the thread!

popsicledeath said:
Off topic. Should be posted in the amod thread. Consider yourself reported!
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Youre Good Robert Deniro GIF
 
Kirun

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Cinge said:
I'm chuckling at the apparent powerless mods. Came in twice to move the conversation else where and they were just ignored and outright laughed at, with conversation carrying on as is.
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Just wait until Dad gets home, young man!
 
popsicledeath

popsicledeath

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Denamian said:
A studio closes and the owner blames it on employees leaking info to the press? Goddamn that DEI boogeyman did it again! Let's shit up the thread!
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They were all woke though, bragging about hiring game developers from underserved and overlooked communities. So the discussion was, sure, the guy blamed an internal leak, but was it really because they went woke and hired based on demographics as they claimed was their goal?

And the founder quickly said he was closing to spend time with family and care for an ailing loved one, making the situation even more sus in an industry where a lot of these popup studios seem more like DEI consulting grifts than real game producers.

Whole situation was weird, but it's not like people just randomly started screeching about DEI. People started somewhat relevantly screeching about it. ;)
 
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TJT

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I find this stuff funny. I know Games Workshop is mega gay these days. But have some self awareness. 40k is like one of the sweatiest, nerdiest, most mouthbreathing things there is. But ya know, bitches love 40k. Save some pussy for the rest of us Games Workshop!

Did they forget the Sisters of Battle?
 
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Hateyou

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TJT said:

I find this stuff funny. I know Games Workshop is mega gay these days. But have some self awareness. 40k is like one of the sweatiest, nerdiest, most mouthbreathing things there is. But ya know, bitches love 40k. Save some pussy for the rest of us Games Workshop!

Did they forget the Sisters of Battle?
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From the 40k thread in tabletop. Usual suspect investors destroying shit.

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