Getting an organic listing on google

Lenas · Oct 5, 2012

Tmac47 said:
I"ve read that consolidating your pages into longer single pages is the way to go these days. Basically taking your "services" tab that used to be broken up into 4 pages and turning it into one long page that includes all of your services.

Depends on the amount of content you have. I work on plastic surgeon websites all day and we do a combination of both. They offer a ton of services, so we break them into general categories (surgical, non surgical, injectable, skin care) that each have their own pages with summaries of each procedure under their respective umbrellas. Each procedure also has its own page though for things like information, questions and patient results.

splok_foh · Oct 5, 2012

Tyen said:
If your website doesn"t curate content than you won"t get a good organic listing.

baltimore landscaping - Google Search
How many of the top 10 results are content curators? Not many unless you count a few work example shots and tip posts as content curation.

Tyen said:
Auto-post industry related rss feeds to some category on your website and feed it to google.

Why risk giving people the chance to get distracted from his content and possibly leave the site for a very nebulous benefit at best? Not to mention the lack of control of the content that he have. You"re giving him advice like he was trying to rank an adsense farm. All businesses aren"t disposable sites that you can re-roll.

tyen · Oct 5, 2012

Splok said:
distracted from his content and possibly leave the site for a very nebulous benefit

lol. Do you have any background in building & growing websites at all? Or are you just talking about things you think with no actual proof of concept? The category with the content doesn"t even have to be displayed anywhere people can navigate to. People discover your site through Google, that"s what you want, which means you need content for Google. Nebulous? 1k-2k visits a day from Google is Nebulous? You dumb bro.

Splok said:
How many of the top 10 results are content curators?

The Google search you gave me are websites with huge directories of listings for that particular keyword; such as Yellowpages & Servicemagic.

They have an asston of content that you need to compete with. If you are saying Yellowpages & Servicemagic aren"t curators of content, than you are dumb as hell.

Splok said:
disposable sites

So growing your domain through content by aggregating your industry and gaining analytical insight is disposable? lol

Splok said:
rank an adsense farm

You do that through buying backlinks and having a small amount of content, not a large amount of content. Ad-trap sites have very few pages because they only want you to come to their page to do offers.

Splok said:
downside is much bigger than the upside.

fiverr.com knows more about Google Panda than Google does. Google only discounts backlinks lowering the weight they give you if caught with 5k backlinks from domains that aren"t targeted with keywords that your site has.

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Splok said:
Lyrical has a real business with real customers.

What is that suppose to mean? Nordstroms, Macy"s, etc got caught awhile ago with tons of purchased backlinks. Google merely discounted those backlinks which dropped their rank. Google didn"t specifically target those retailers and wipe them off Google or kick them out. The downside you speak of is minimal.

Shonuff · Oct 5, 2012

I have no idea what any of you are saying .

Tenks · Oct 5, 2012

I was lost immediately since I thought organic listing meant healthy shit

tyen · Oct 5, 2012

Organic results from Google are when you go to the search engine for "FOH" and click on "Fires of Heaven" in the first result.

To get more organic traffic you need keywords on Google.

To get more keywords on Google you need more content.

If you have very few pages/keywords and you still want more traffic from Google without a lot of content, you need more sites to link to your page (backlinks).

So to achieve what you want, Lyrical, you need more sites linking to your site or more content on your site; Content and/or Backlinks.

You can manually post content, or automate it.
You can beg people to link to you, or buy them cheaply on fiverr.

Tmac · Oct 5, 2012

Lyrical said:
I have no idea what any of you are saying .

OK. So, let"s break this down a bit.

Two things that we know Google looks at are keywords and linkbacks. There are others, but I"m going to talk about these two for now. Linkbacks are links from other sites that point back to your website. Based on the page rank of that site, the anchor tag on the link, and the traffic to that site, Google gives that linkback a certain weight. Keywords are 1-3 word descriptors of your site and what your business does. There"s also long-tail keywords that are 4+ words in length, that generally have less searches on Google, but can still generate (more specific) traffic to your site. For the sake of argument, let"s just assume Keywords are in fact 1-3 words and long-tails are 4+.

For example, if you write an article and send it to Landscaping.com to post, while also getting them to add a link with the anchortagestate landscaping. You"re going to be closer to #1 on the Google search page. How much closer? That depends on your competition and how much content/presence they have on the web.

So, how do you follow the example?

Write a keyword rich article about your website. If you"re in landscape you want to check out Google"s Ad Words and type in several words that have something to do with your niche (high end landscape, estate landscaping, etc). Then you want to choose a keyword you think will help you. If it has high searches and low/medium competition, that"d be a good place to start. Next write an article focusing on a single keyword, that way you have content that"s pushing that keyword. It"s basically like jumping up and down, screaming at Google, "Hey! Over here! I"m doing stuff in "estate landscaping". Then post that article on your blog/site.

That"s the first step. Your site still doesn"t carry much weight, so all that jumping up and down can only do so much. You want to think about linkbacks like pitching an idea to a company. You"re basically saying to Google, "Hey, you already know I"m doing things in "estate landscaping", but did you know that Landscaping.com also knows I"m doing things in "estate landscaping"? They"re a really big site, so you know I"m legit when they"re talking about me!" So, when you get Landscaping.com to post your article you also want them to linkback to your site with the anchor tagestate landscapingthat"s relevant to your keyword. It reemphasizes your keyword to Google.

This is really just one method. You can also pay for linkbacks without having any content whatsoever and still reap the benefits that come from having someone more established pointing to your site. If you do this, however, you want to focus on sites that have something to do with your niche, as it"s more effective. How effective though, who"s to say.

That"s basically the idea. Create content, get linkbacks, get your name out there, and get other people (sites) to validate your legitimacy.

edit: #nutshell goes to Tyen

Shonuff · Oct 5, 2012

As woeful as my Internet strategy is, we picked up just under 6k in sales this week from it.

Repeat customer that went to the site: $900, 2075
Google what we do: 325, 800, 375, 475, 1,000

I think we are still leaving money on the table, I"ll continue to hone what we do.

Dabamf_sl · Oct 5, 2012

Izuldan said:
I don"t know the breakdown, but I do know I get far better ROI on my paid clicks than my organic listing.

I pay a company $4000 a month to handle all my SEO stuff, including organic listing, Facebook, Twitter, web integration, etc. I don"t know much about the organic listing stuff, but they do the legit (I guess) stuff called "white-hat". I"m not going to pretend I know what it is, but my friend that is into this stuff told me to make sure they did "white hat" so I would be in compliance with Google algorithms and not be penalized in the future.

My listing is almost always #1, that being said, I still generate far more calls and revenue from paid clicks. The importance of being listed #1 I feel has more to do with imprinting and branding than actual customers. It"s also much easier to track the clicks than it is your own website, so you may be generating more clients than you think from your listing.

However, for me personally, when I had extra money to spend, I bought more clicks. I purchased more area codes instead of key words, once I figured out which were my top ones. I went with Reach Local for my paid clicks.

If your SEO company only does white hat, they are either lying, or they are doing a much much worse job than they could be doing.

I"m very close to someone who does SEO for a living. He works for himself and taught himself the entire industry. He did white hat for years until he realized that"s just what everyone on forums and in the community SAYS to do, but those people are either making no money or they are liars. They also benefit from telling people to use white hat because those people are their competition.

Smart SEO guys look for tricks and know what google will punish them for, and what they won"t. It won"t get your site delisted or punished. It"s never happened to him in years.

But the SEO business is the wild west, and full of people who have no idea what they"re doing.

Araysar · Oct 5, 2012

Tyen,

What are the best services on fiverr right now to pump up your organic results for a non geographic specific site?

splok_foh · Oct 5, 2012

Tyen said:
lol. Do you have any background in building & growing websites at all?

Why? I"m not the one giving shitty advice.

Tyen said:
Nebulous? 1k-2k visits a day from Google is Nebulous? You dumb bro.

Are you drunk or tolling? Google isn"t nebulous, the benefit of just tossing in an rss feed is. Surely you"re not claiming that your proposed rss feed is going to bring 1k visit/day to his site? You can"t be that drunk.

Tyen said:
The Google search you gave me are websites with huge directories of listings for that particular keyword; such as Yellowpages & Servicemagic.

They have an asston of content that you need to compete with. If you are saying Yellowpages & Servicemagic aren"t curators of content, than you are dumb as hell.

Ya, 3 out of the top 10 results... Somehow the other 7 are ranking without being content aggregators.

Tyen said:
So growing your domain through content by aggregating your industry and gaining analytical insight is disposable? lol

If you"re relying on mass fixerr spam to rank a new site, I hope it"s disposable.

Tyen said:
fiverr.com knows more about Google Panda than Google does.

Obviously by putting "panda safe" in a description, it must be true! All of these amazing $5 service providers have totally got Google pegged!

Tyen said:
What is that suppose to mean? Nordstroms, Macy"s, etc got caught awhile ago with tons of purchased backlinks.

Is Lyrical"s site the equivalent of Nordstrom"s? A few thousand spammy links clearly isn"t going to sink wikipedia, but when those spammy links are all that you have...

Anyway, done arguing with Tyen about this...

Dabamf said:
If your SEO company only does white hat, they are either lying, or they are doing a much much worse job than they could be doing.

I know this wasn"t directed at me, but just to be clear, since it probably sounds that way, I"m not saying that seo needs to be squeaky clean and google approved. I"m saying that if someone is going to do something that could potentially hurt their site/business, they should know what they"re getting into. And if they"re going to pay someone to do it for them, they should understand exactly what they"re going to be getting.

Shonuff · Oct 5, 2012

I never go to yahoo, but today, but I went on there and saw only one review for my business, and it was negative. No bullshit, it was an emergency job where he was going to lose his house if the work wasn"t done, insurance paid the money, and then he cashed the check and refused to pay me unless I paid him 1/3 of the job. We finally got the check, but he blasted me on yahoo. For some reason, the state requires insurance companies to pay the customer, and then the customer pays the company, and every couple of years you get a mouthbreather who tries to steal the insurance payout.

I guess I"ve got three choices:

1- Sue him

2- Flood yahoo with positive responses

3- Get my customers to put in responses also

Tmac · Oct 5, 2012

Lyrical said:
I guess I"ve got three choices:

1- Sue him

2- Flood yahoo with positive responses

3- Get my customers to put in responses also

#2 blackhat. Actually, with my company, I have my partner call every customer we"ve worked with to solicit a positive comment. All of the comments on the page I posted are legit, that times three. I"m not really sure how to post them on yahoo/google/etc., but we have legit customer affirmation. But, apart from black hatting that shit, how is the web to know? Most of our clients are 60+ and asking them to post on Yahoo! would be like asking Henry Ford to reinvent the wheel. It"s just not going to happen.

splok_foh · Oct 6, 2012

Lyrical said:
I guess I"ve got three choices:

maybe more!

4: Ignore it. Is the review page ranking for your target keywords? Or is it in a spot where your customers would routinely research? The best response may be no response.

5: Counter it. Is there any option to reply or explain the reviewee"s side of the review?

6: Outrank it. If it is ranking for your terms, doing some of the previously mentioned things can push it off of the front page.

7: Prepare for it. If you haven"t yet, you should set up google alerts for your company name. That way you get notified when google finds a mention of you. Then you can jump on the problem (or opportunity) quickly. That would probably also be good to do for your keywords, so when someone starts talking about landscaping in your area, you can drop into the conversation.

Also, this seemed relevant:Why You Shouldn"t Pay Any SEO You Can Afford | Kalzumeus Software

Shonuff · Oct 6, 2012

Thanks for the input, all. This thread has been a big help to me. I went through and pulled out all of the advertising reports for August, and here are the results:

9-8-12 Report:
internet tree service, 200, 325

internet company name, 250

Referral, internet tree 50

9-14-12 Report:
4 Internet tree service, $2250, $300, $200, $150

Internet company name $150

9-21-12 Report:
internet tree 1000, internet company name 900

4 internet tree 1350, 950, 150, 200

9-28-12 Report:

got from referral 2000 500

4 referral int tree 125 1325

--------------------------------------------------

So I looked it up, my Internet budget has only been about $350 (240 for adwords and 100 for misc. expenses) and we generated 8,500 in new customer jobs for the month. These are service fees, so it is about 25-30% profit. There is a few more k in there that is past customers that looked us up. If we didn"t have a web presence, what % of those may have gone to competitors?

I"d like to take credit, but I can"t. Only myself and one other company even have a website, and there are only four of us using adwords. I also benefit that I"m listed first in every service directory but YP. So if people click the first page, we on probably 60% of every link. YP is super expensive in comparison, they want $5k a year to get on a banner ad with them. I also benefit in that I"ve got the billboards up, a radio ad, dominant position in the paper yellow pages, a newspaper ad, and great reputation. So people see us somewhere else, then hit the web. I talked to a customer the other day who saw our billboard and then went home, and googled us.

I still believe that my web strategy is so unfocused, and that I"m leaving money on the table. Maybe I could double our sales from the Internet. Areas to improve:

1- Increase advertising budget for google adwords. Right now, we average the third banner ad.

2- Try to get organic listings in each city (if the assumption is that 40% of people go to adwords and 60 go to the organic listing, that is a lot of opportunity)

3- Make the website look more professional. It is something I put together, but it needs a professional. Four years ago, I was the only one on it. Now others have followed.

4- The other things you guys recommended

I"ve kind of thrown my hand up in the air and had a half-assed strategy because a few years ago, I might have only gotten 1k a month. But this year, the net has grown to almost 10% of sales for some reason, and I can"t just be satisfied with having a web presence.

Tmac · Oct 6, 2012

Lyrical said:
Thanks for the input, all. This thread has been a big help to me. I went through and pulled out all of the advertising reports for August, and here are the results:

9-8-12 Report:
internet tree service, 200, 325

internet company name, 250

Referral, internet tree 50

9-14-12 Report:
4 Internet tree service, $2250, $300, $200, $150

Internet company name $150

9-21-12 Report:
internet tree 1000, internet company name 900

4 internet tree 1350, 950, 150, 200

9-28-12 Report:

got from referral 2000 500

4 referral int tree 125 1325

Are those your key words and how much you spent on them or something entirely different?

Shonuff · Oct 6, 2012

Tmac47 said:
Are those your key words and how much you spent on them or something entirely different?

I"m not putting my keywords for all to see, on advisement by someone in this thread. As they said in a PM, if they are turning this high a profit, it"s proprietary. Really, all I did was take the logical search terms and revise them over about four years.

Also, the other calls came from the four or five Internet directories I am in, as well as my organic listing.

Tmac · Oct 6, 2012

Lyrical said:
I"m not putting my keywords for all to see, on advisement by someone in this thread. As they said in a PM, if they are turning this high a profit, it"s proprietary. Really, all I did was take the logical search terms and revise them over about four years.

Also, the other calls came from the four or five Internet directories I am in, as well as my organic listing.

Sorry, I wasn"t asking for your secrets. I assumed the words were intended to represent keywords, but I didn"t know what the number value represented.

Is that searches, clicks, dollars paid, dollars netted...? I just wasn"t sure.

Shonuff · Oct 6, 2012

Tmac47 said:
Sorry, I wasn"t asking for your secrets. I assumed the words were intended to represent keywords, but I didn"t know what the number value represented.

Is that searches, clicks, dollars paid, dollars netted...? I just wasn"t sure.

Those are signed contracts for the week.

Tmac · Oct 6, 2012

So, aside from generating quality content on your site. One of the things I"m reading is that you want to be generating traffic from multiple sources (AdWords + others) on multiple search engines (Google + others) withqualitybacklinks.

The biggest thing I see with Tyen"s strategy, while effective as a burst campaign is the effect it will have over time, or if you"re looking to have a valuable web presence in the future, aka selling your business. Blackhat is all fine and good when you"re talking about paying for quality backlinks. I just see having thousands of shitty backlinks pointing to your site as more of a liability than an asset.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now where does this leave me (us)? I"m going to be pushing 2 companies:
Company A: deals in land which is highly competitive
Company B: deals in timber which is super niche and has a very LOW presence online

The difficulties I foresee have less to do with generating content and more to do with generating quality backlinks. In the land company we deal with a lot of banks so I"m thinking about working something into our contracts (barring it doesn"t break with bank policy) that requires them to post a link to our site from theirs. I"ll probably include a press release for the property or something to make it contextually relevant.

The timber site, however, is super duper niche and most of the sites online are organizations likeThe GFAand theAmerican Tree Farm System. Getting backlinks from sites like these seems a bit far fetched.

Has anyone had experience in breaking into an industry and generating a web presence there?

Getting an organic listing on google

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