Girls who broke your heart thread

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Alcestis_foh

shitlord
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Dr. Rubicite said:
About two and a half years ago, I met a really amazing woman.
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It sounds like you"re pretty scared of screwing up: her knees must be so un-sharp that they"re concave.

Covering new ground (Tarrant and Simas both brought up good points to keep in mind): you can"t possibly appear creepy when she was the one who contacted you first. The whole situation is great for a response of "This coffee shop/restaurant I like opened while you were gone from town. If your number is still the same, I"ll take you there when you..." or some variation thereof. Remember to not give up the control she has so easily given you by letting her make big decisions. As for the "boring her to tears" bit, girls generally love to talk about themselves. You have the advantage. She hasn"t seen you in years and yet still, obviously, remembers you fondly. A woman who"s that "intelligent, reasonable, cultured" etc. isn"t going to waste her time with someone who bores her. Your way of responding is perfectly fine; though if youreallywant, you might make a conscious effort to say just a bit more. Make that opinion you"re interjecting have a length of two sentences instead of one, reflect and store up on short personal stories that have happened while she was away, catch up on local news that might be relevant to her/you/us if you"re in a conversational pinch. All that"s only for your confidence"s sake, which truly can be everything. Really though, don"t fret too much on that end. Your story is delightfully refreshing in that it looksimpossibleto screw this up. If you act like yourself, which is what appears made her fall for you in the first place, it"ll be fine.
 
W

Whyme_foh

shitlord
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Dr.Rubicite said:
About two and a half years ago, I met a really amazing woman.
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Pretty much what Alcestis said. It sounds like you"re in a great situation, all you have to do is not screw it up.

If you want to avoid being creepy just be mindful about how much contact you have with her, and how eager you seem to do something with her. You"re strategy of letting her doing most of the talking is damn-near perfect - girls love to talk about themselves, especially if you are actively listening to her. Also, make sure to disagree with her on at least one thing - don"t just sit there and nod at everything she says.

One way to get over that initial trepidation towards conversation is to take her someplace with "built-in" conversational topics, that way topics spring up in a much more natural way than "so, what kinda music do you like?" etc.

One last thing - if you manage to get past the coffee date and book another one, make sure you plan in it completely. Whatever you do, don"t ask her what she wants to do. Have some suggestions lined up and if she says she doesn"t like one of them move on to the others.
 
Pasteton

Pasteton

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Dabamf said:
I have always looked at relationships, whether friendships or romantic ones, as an exchange of goods. If I am putting in something, I expect to get something back. And no I"m not talking about "I drove you to work today, so now you owe me 1 ride" (I actually had a friend in college who did that...someone was in debt to him like 8 rides that he had counted over the year). I"m talking a broader sense.

You should only put in what you get out, or rationally expect to get out in the future.
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But see this is exactly my point of frustration. I enjoy putting "stuff in" so to speak and i"m not really looking to get something back, to me this would just seem so..mechanical? As an example that same g/f, I"d get excited if I came up with something I think she"d like, not necessarily a gift but some activity or event that she"d enjoy, or a gay poem or whatever. I looked forward to making her happy, etc, but not to get anything back, it"s just natural I think to feel good by making others feel good, or something like that? But I totally can see how to the girl or someone on the outside looking in, it comes across as me being desperate. Honestly I don"t know exactly what i"d want "back" anyhow; if basically getting something back is sex, then no, that"s not it for me, if i wanted sex that bad i"m only a few hundred dollars away from a highclass hooker. Do I want her approval? that"s probably what she thinks, but personally I don"t even think it"s about that - I do it more because I enjoy it myself. Hell I know i get a bigger kick out of doing things/giving things than she does receiving them, and i"m fine with that. If she doesnt like something i do then sure i"d be disappointed, but that would be true for anyone; i recently got a friend a shitty bday gift and felt terrible afterwards.

I just don"t think much about what my expectations are, or what i "want" from someone else. As a person I"m just much more focused on what i can "do" for others, and what others want. This applies to interpersonal relationships in general for me, not just g/f"s. I"m not trying to praise myself at all; it"s just how I am, yet somehow I feel like i"m being punished because of it, or that my g/f"s dont respect me because of it.

I feel like I"m forcing myself to be mean or selfish simply because I don"t want to look like a tool to her, even though apparently being a tool is what comes naturally to me. Most guys are doormats because somewhere inside of them is some lingering hope that if they hang on enough the girl will suddenly "see the light" and fall for them (the "This could turn it around for vanguard" personality type). But I"m just a doormat to the core; without a purpose, rhyme or reason.
 
Soygen

Soygen

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The fact is, that is how youshouldtreat the person you"re in a relationship with. However, if they aren"t reciprocating, then you probably shouldn"t even be with them. That"s a lot easier said than done(as evident by the length of this thread).
 
C

chu_foh

shitlord
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Pasteton said:
But see this is exactly my point of frustration. I enjoy putting "stuff in" so to speak and i"m not really looking to get something back, to me this would just seem so..mechanical? As an example that same g/f, I"d get excited if I came up with something I think she"d like, not necessarily a gift but some activity or event that she"d enjoy, or a gay poem or whatever. I looked forward to making her happy, etc, but not to get anything back, it"s just natural I think to feel good by making others feel good, or something like that? But I totally can see how to the girl or someone on the outside looking in, it comes across as me being desperate. Honestly I don"t know exactly what i"d want "back" anyhow; if basically getting something back is sex, then no, that"s not it for me, if i wanted sex that bad i"m only a few hundred dollars away from a highclass hooker. Do I want her approval? that"s probably what she thinks, but personally I don"t even think it"s about that - I do it more because I enjoy it myself. Hell I know i get a bigger kick out of doing things/giving things than she does receiving them, and i"m fine with that. If she doesnt like something i do then sure i"d be disappointed, but that would be true for anyone; i recently got a friend a shitty bday gift and felt terrible afterwards.

I just don"t think much about what my expectations are, or what i "want" from someone else. As a person I"m just much more focused on what i can "do" for others, and what others want. This applies to interpersonal relationships in general for me, not just g/f"s. I"m not trying to praise myself at all; it"s just how I am, yet somehow I feel like i"m being punished because of it, or that my g/f"s dont respect me because of it.

I feel like I"m forcing myself to be mean or selfish simply because I don"t want to look like a tool to her, even though apparently being a tool is what comes naturally to me. Most guys are doormats because somewhere inside of them is some lingering hope that if they hang on enough the girl will suddenly "see the light" and fall for them (the "This could turn it around for vanguard" personality type). But I"m just a doormat to the core; without a purpose, rhyme or reason.
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How experienced are you with relationships of any sort? It sounds (and don"t take this the wrong way) that you"re quite new at it from both a romantic and a friendship stance. People that haven"t dated often or had many friends in the past, often have your type of outlook.

It won"t work in the long run and you should never be around people that don"t give as much as they take. It"s not worth it. If it seems like you"re always calling/driving/planning/paying, break it off and look for someone else whether it"s a friend or a girl(boy)friend.
 
Void

Void

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So I was listening to the local rock station awhile ago and heard a new band with a female singer, Halestorm. If you"ve listened to any similar stations you"ve probably heard their song "I Get Off" about a thousand times by now. I liked the song enough (in a Lita Ford nostalgic way) to acquire the rest of the album, and there is one song in particular that the moment I heard it, I thought of this thread. It"s calledWhat Were You Expecting?and is basically talking about how she"s not the delicate little flower to be worshiped that lots of men want her to be. I won"t quote the entire song, even though it all pretty much applies to this thread, but the last verse is probably the most appropriate.

Everything about you makes me scream
Be a man and get up off your knees
Try to say this in the nicest way

What were you expecting?
Another lullaby?
Are you kidding?
You must be high
She"s just saying what most women actually feel, despite what they say. Stand up and be a man, because nice guys really do finish last.*

*This comes from someone that has been that nice guy far too many times, so I"m not without fault by a long shot. And I"m still working on it.

P.S. Totally calling it that this song will be one of their next singles, and be a huge hit. We"re due for a "bitchy chick" rock song about now I think.
 
Tarrant

Tarrant

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Nice guys don"t finish last, it"s just they are the ones more vocal about it when they get hurt, dumped or things don"t turn out well.

Dickheads simply don"t care, there"s a big difference.

You can be a nice guy without being "that guy".
 
brekk

brekk

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Causation vs. Causality

It"s not being nice that"s the problem. It"s that most guys that are nice, are that way because they lack confidence. Lack of confidence is what girls dislike.
 
Brad2770

Brad2770

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brekk said:
Causation vs. Causality

It"s not being nice that"s the problem. It"s that most guys that are nice, are that way because they lack confidence. Lack of confidence is what girls dislike.
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Yes

Well, I say yes because me being an asshole is probably the fact that I lack confidence. I am an asshole because its my best attempt at fake condfidence.
 
Tarrant

Tarrant

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brekk said:
Causation vs. Causality

It"s not being nice that"s the problem. It"s that most guys that are nice, are that way because they lack confidence. Lack of confidence is what girls dislike.
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Bingo. Nothing is more unattractive to a woman then a guy who has no confidence...no confidence leads to insecurities and at that point, it"s game over.
 
Pasteton

Pasteton

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chu said:
How experienced are you with relationships of any sort? It sounds (and don"t take this the wrong way) that you"re quite new at it from both a romantic and a friendship stance. People that haven"t dated often or had many friends in the past, often have your type of outlook.

It won"t work in the long run and you should never be around people that don"t give as much as they take. It"s not worth it. If it seems like you"re always calling/driving/planning/paying, break it off and look for someone else whether it"s a friend or a girl(boy)friend.
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I"m probably not as experienced with romantic relationships as most, partly because the few i"ve been in lasted several years and partly because after one of them i spiraled into a depression that lasted years where i rarely went out in daylight.

I"ve rarely ever been around people that "give" as much as me, i think that would be unfair to ask of my friends. If i see something that strikes me as "hey xxx would like this" i may just get it for him/her, and I don"t usually consider "but xxx never got anything for me" in the decision. I"ll also usually be one of the first to try and help someone out if they need it, for example at work, etc. I"ll also often be the one driving/planning/calling etc but a lot of that is because I don"t give others the chance - no one would think a lot of my friends are "users" or anything like that, it"s just they may come across that way because of how i act.
 
Pasteton

Pasteton

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brekk said:
Causation vs. Causality

It"s not being nice that"s the problem. It"s that most guys that are nice, are that way because they lack confidence. Lack of confidence is what girls dislike.
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Define confidence? This definitely brings up a sour point for me, as my ex and my current g/f both love/loved going off about how i"m not "confident". but my g/f"s idea of confidence is dressing like a ck model, standing up really straight, and never saying anything unpleasant even if it"s reality. I like consider myself honest, and if i ever comment about myself, I am very direct -even if it"s something unpleasant or doesnt paint me in a good light - i do the same thing if it"s something complimentary as well, it doesn"t matter. but my g/f takes it as me raggin down on myself; i"m fine with saying it how it is but to her it bothers her. The irony to me is that i think there is a certain confidence in not fooling yourself, and being fine with it, but she will never realize that about me.
 
A

Alcestis_foh

shitlord
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A little tired, Pasteton, so bear with me.

There"s a multitude of examples that can be used next, but I believe you"ll get my meaning. Do you consider yourself "so honest" that you"ll tell your girlfriend that a dress she loves looks hideous on her? Are you so "direct" that you"d ever tell her she stinks like an Amsterdam whorehouse after putting too much perfume on, even if that"s exactly what you"re thinking? No? As a "nice guy", of course not. I suspect you"re holding yourself to a double-standard where it"s okay for you to be "honest" when talking about yourself but you hold back when it might paintheror others you care about in a negative light. That"s horribly easy to spot for a girl, no matter how you try to hide it, being absolute masters of double-speak and all. I"d bet a lapdance from Jenna Haze thatthathypocrisy is why it bothered her (and your other woman) so much.

One of the things I"ve found that"s common in good relationships is deference to the injured party. If one person cares deeply or strongly about an issue, and the other one has no real feelings about it either way (and the request is comparatively painless to fulfill), the ambivalent one should hand the reins off. By acknowledging feelings in this way, you quell a lot of hurt and misunderstandings that can just build up and poison everything. It"s a hard lesson to learn, and it"s an ongoing personal process for me, so if someone would like to speak up and explain more eloquently what I mean, please feel free.

Tying into the above... why is your need to tell the truth out-loud so strong when youknow(and you"ve been told by two girls now no less) that it bothers them? They have an emotional investment, for whatever reason ("It"s like you"re ragging on yourself", "It makes you look less confident",IT ACTIVELY MAKES YOU LOOK UNATTRACTIVE TO MEso please don"t do it", etc.)... andallyou have to do is keep your trap shut when it comes to criticism of yourself. That"s it. "Just don"t say it out-loud" is a reasonable request, easy to fulfill, but you insist on doing it. Why? You"re going to be a lonely man if you can"t acknowledge that this particular issue apparently meansa lotto the girls you like... and you keep doing it. Don"t worry; I"m not asking you to lie or, pfft, "fool yourself" - which a silly thought in itself. YOU obviously know what your faults are, vocalizing them or keeping them silent doesn"t change a damn thing about those undesirable traits or your belief in them. You can"t "fool yourself" that way. What matters is THEIR belief. It"s a classic job-review effect where the employee fixates on the bad points instead of the "you do this great" column. As you"re not an employer, you don"t have to worry about that headache. Lucky you! You can pick at those faults/negatives all you want in your head, fuck, write it down on an LJ if you really need to tell the world. But don"t insist on airing your dirty laundry (or doing anything that can be easily stopped, for that matter) when you know it actively hurts someone you"re supposed to care about.

tl;dr: Most girls (I"ve seen, anyway) really do tie unabashed self-criticism to confidence level. Either you find a woman who doesn"t believe in that illogical association, or you defer. The latter is hard, but it"ll serve us all well to learn.



Eomer: Ha! After the inevitable failure, I"ll expect the .ppt on my desk by morning.
 
Eomer

Eomer

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That reminds me, actually. I have a bud who also does the ski bus guiding thing in the winter, and we are often on the same trips together. He is the absolute definition of the alpha male. He"s decent looking, but not in the greatest shape. He"s got good taste in clothes etc, and he absolutely exudes confidence. When I first met him I figured it was at least partially an act, but the more I got to know him I soon realized that no, he"s just "that guy." And one of his favorite moves to pull is the absolute height of cheesiness, but every time he"s done it the girl has absolutely melted. He"s normally in a serious relationship and doesn"t cheat, so he just does it for fun.

It"s pretty simple really. If we"re at a restaurant or bar and either the server or someone nearby is cute, he"ll inconspicuously take a paper napkin and fold it up in to a rose. He"s damned good at it, they"re pretty decent. Every time I"ve seen him pull that, the girl is pretty much putty in his hands.

Granted, his personality is what seals the deal, it"s not a move I"d be likely to pull off unless I was NOT interested in the girl I was doing it to. I just thought it was worth relating.

One of the funniest times was when we stopped at a little cabin halfway up the mountain that served coffee and burgers. The two of us were wearing Oilers jerseys over our ski jackets. A fairly attractive girl was serving us and he gave her the rose. She instantly melted and the conversation went like this:

"aaaaaawwwwwwwwww. You"re so sweet!"

"No,you"resweet."

*girl blushes*

"You"ve totally made my day."

"No, you made my day."

*group laughs, she wanders off in a daze looking at her prized paper napkin rose. She comes back a few minutes later with another round.*

"So, umm, where are you guys all from?"

*the two of us look at her, look at each other, and chuckle loudly. She immediately turns red.*

"Oh, haha, duh, Edmonton then hey?"

"You"re justso pretty."

*She immediately looks like someone slapped her, and she stamps off muttering underneath her breath "unfuckingbelievable"*

It was hilarious how he was playing with her. By the time we left, she"d apologized for being a bitch and was back to eating out of his hand. I wish I had his magic powers.
 
Pasteton

Pasteton

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Alcestis said:
A little tired, Pasteton, so bear with me.

There"s a multitude of examples that can be used next, but I believe you"ll get my meaning. Do you consider yourself "so honest" that you"ll tell your girlfriend that a dress she loves looks hideous on her? Are you so "direct" that you"d ever tell her she stinks like an Amsterdam whorehouse after putting too much perfume on, even if that"s exactly what you"re thinking? No? As a "nice guy", of course not. I suspect you"re holding yourself to a double-standard where it"s okay for you to be "honest" when talking about yourself but you hold back when it might paintheror others you care about in a negative light. That"s horribly easy to spot for a girl, no matter how you try to hide it, being absolute masters of double-speak and all. I"d bet a lapdance from Jenna Haze thatthathypocrisy is why it bothered her (and your other woman) so much.

One of the things I"ve found that"s common in good relationships is deference to the injured party. If one person cares deeply or strongly about an issue, and the other one has no real feelings about it either way (and the request is comparatively painless to fulfill), the ambivalent one should hand the reins off. By acknowledging feelings in this way, you quell a lot of hurt and misunderstandings that can just build up and poison everything. It"s a hard lesson to learn, and it"s an ongoing personal process for me, so if someone would like to speak up and explain more eloquently what I mean, please feel free.

Tying into the above... why is your need to tell the truth out-loud so strong when youknow(and you"ve been told by two girls now no less) that it bothers them? They have an emotional investment, for whatever reason ("It"s like you"re ragging on yourself", "It makes you look less confident",IT ACTIVELY MAKES YOU LOOK UNATTRACTIVE TO MEso please don"t do it", etc.)... andallyou have to do is keep your trap shut when it comes to criticism of yourself. That"s it. "Just don"t say it out-loud" is a reasonable request, easy to fulfill, but you insist on doing it. Why? You"re going to be a lonely man if you can"t acknowledge that this particular issue apparently meansa lotto the girls you like... and you keep doing it. Don"t worry; I"m not asking you to lie or, pfft, "fool yourself" - which a silly thought in itself. YOU obviously know what your faults are, vocalizing them or keeping them silent doesn"t change a damn thing about those undesirable traits or your belief in them. You can"t "fool yourself" that way. What matters is THEIR belief. It"s a classic job-review effect where the employee fixates on the bad points instead of the "you do this great" column. As you"re not an employer, you don"t have to worry about that headache. Lucky you! You can pick at those faults/negatives all you want in your head, fuck, write it down on an LJ if you really need to tell the world. But don"t insist on airing your dirty laundry (or doing anything that can be easily stopped, for that matter) when you know it actively hurts someone you"re supposed to care about.

tl;dr: Most girls (I"ve seen, anyway) really do tie unabashed self-criticism to confidence level. Either you find a woman who doesn"t believe in that illogical association, or you defer. The latter is hard, but it"ll serve us all well to learn.



Eomer: Ha! After the inevitable failure, I"ll expect the .ppt on my desk by morning.
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you"re kinda getting now to what i despise about chicks in general, and my g/f in particular. what"s so hard openly accepting my faults and still being happy about who i am? I think a person"s flaws are just as important a part of who they are as their strengths, maybe she realizes that deep down but the inability to lay stuff out in the open with her pisses me off. While it bothers me to upset her, it bothers me even more to just be ok with her ignoring things about me just to be satisfied with me. i hate how everything needs to be perfect in a chick"s world. i could start a whole nother rant about how my g/f is like that but don"t wanna get too personal or sidetrack.

oh and you have me pegged incorrectly. i do point out stuff i dont like about her, though i try to do it in a way thats funny/sarcastic etc rather than in-your-face. i do it with others and it works fine, but with her sometimes she does get hurt, which makes it even harder for me because i hate bullshitting about stuff.
 
S

Simas_sl

shitlord
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Alcestis said:
One of the things I"ve found that"s common in good relationships is deference to the injured party. If one person cares deeply or strongly about an issue, and the other one has no real feelings about it either way (and the request is comparatively painless to fulfill), the ambivalent one should hand the reins off. By acknowledging feelings in this way, you quell a lot of hurt and misunderstandings that can just build up and poison everything. It"s a hard lesson to learn, and it"s an ongoing personal process for me, so if someone would like to speak up and explain more eloquently what I mean, please feel free.
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I agree with this but I"d caution to only defer when the injured party makes it clear its important to them.

For instance, I really dont care where I eat. It would often happen where a girl I was dating would say lets go eat, what do you want? Id say I dont care you pick. I"ve learned most of the girls I"ve dated hate this. However, in my head I was thinking where I eat does not matter so if she has a preference we might as well go there. Derferring made sense to me.

I dont do that anymore. I still dont care where I eat but that makes it easy to just pick some random place. If she doesnt like it I pick another random place.

My point is deferring when something is really important to someone is kind. De facto deferring makes it seem like you lack confidence.
 
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Simas_sl

shitlord
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Pasteton said:
you"re kinda getting now to what i despise about chicks in general, and my g/f in particular. what"s so hard openly accepting my faults and still being happy about who i am?
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Other people"s views of our faults are often different than our own. No one wants to date a loser. She might think you"re nerdy, you might think you"re uncool/lame. Some people like nerds, nobody likes lame asses. She can accept you"re not a model, she can"t accept your ugly. etc etc.
 
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