GMO, Monsanto, organic dreadlocked nonsense?

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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I don't think that working the meat counter is immoral at all. Working in the marketing department at Whole Foods? Maybe. When I first started contemplating getting back into agriculture our ranch was really struggling financially and so I started looking into things like organic, natural, grass fed, etc. as a value add to our beef. When I did research and really got into it, I realized that it was mostly bullshit (grass fed tastes a bit different than grain fed, but aside from that it's all bullshit). It also seemed like a huge pain in the ass and not really practical for a ranch of our size which made the decision easier, but I felt like if I were to sell our stuff as truly premium and healthier than other beef, I would be a lying scumbag.

Now marketing is always full of bullshit. Meaningless words like "premium", "grade A", "heavy duty" etc are all marketing words that mean absolutely nothing and everyone knows it, but when you start to imply that your competitor's product is unhealthy, dangerous, or immoral based on zero evidence, that is fucking slander. Maybe those amazing local farmers really believe in what they are doing, but I am willing to bet that a lot of them are cynical assholes that are cashing in on dumbass city folks that are paying double because the shit is coming from one of the "good farmers" and not some evil money-grubbing corporate slimeball that they have been told the shit in the grocery store comes from.

Back to me. We have always saved a couple cows to fatten and butcher each year for our own meat and to help out family members that work on the ranch during the year. The last few years, with the help of my aunt, we have also expanded this to sell some grass fed beef to people we don't know. If you have a family to feed and the freezer space, you can save a lot of money by buying half a beef direct from the ranch and cut to your specifications. We sell to people who just have big families and want to save money, but also to a few people who want to think that they are doing something morally good and healthy by buying beef direct from us. They ask about hormones and antibiotics and always make sure to say "thank you for being a good farmer" and all that shit. When I delivered one woman's beef last month she told me that they had run out of our meat from the previous year a month or so earlier and she said "I ate hamburger from the grocery store and it made me throw up". Now from a financial standpoint, I'm not motivated to convince her that she is a fucking nutjob and my hamburger isn't that different from the stuff at the market, but on the other hand, there is zero doubt in my mind that she is off her rocker thinking that supermarket beef somehow caused her to vomit because of any real difference. It feels good to think that you are providing a magical miraculous product that people love, but I also don't believe it myself. It's easy to see how people could sort of slip into hypocrisy doing this kind of thing, but I also think some of them are just flat out shysters.
 

Qhue

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Monsanto is evil, but more for reasons of using science to create agribusiness monopolies and overly aggressive lobbying rather than because of genetic modification by itself. I do buy all my meat from Whole Foods, but that has more to do with other local grocery stores having incredibly poor quality meat offerings than because I want to be all organic.
 

Gavinmad

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Whole Foods is a gigantic load of bullshit anyway. Large scale 'organic' farms, like the places Whole Foods gets their product from, are virtually indistinguishable from any other large scale farming operation. Fruit and Vegetables still get drowned in pesticides and anti-fungals, Cattle is still just corn-fed shit-covered feed lot nastiness. Free range poultry is the biggest joke, because they use the same breed of chicken that gets so morbidly obese and breast-heavy it can't really walk.

Organic is just a fancy word for separating a fool and his money.

Now good produce and grass fed beef from a local farmer's or open air market? That's where it's at.
 

Moglyzoke Moogleman

Stock Pals VP of Shit Stocks
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Lots of good responses since my last one.

My two cents is, in a society like ours that is highly individualistic (aka if you think it's good it's good, if you think it's bad it's bad) there will always be business operating off pseudo-science - again even the medical field!! And I hate to say it but these things apply to just about everything we do.

Take cars for example. How many of you are driving a truck, that gets less than 20 mpg, yet not doing construction or other heavy-duty work that actually requires it? Straight up if you are doing that, over the years, you are pissing away a shit-ton more money on gas then I would via my Corolla. Does it bother me? Fuck no, cause people chose to spend their money how they want and it supports other people and their businesses. A society of savers isn't a driving force in the economy the way it runs at the moment.

It's just another good situation showing the complexities of humans. I mean people shop at Whole Foods for very different reasons, a very small minority of whom does so to support their organic habit. I shop there cause it's a one-stop shop for beer and groceries, which considering my discount ends up being barely more expensive than if I went to other places.

Again avoid assuming that the title of this thread is something other than a charicature or a meme. I mean shit in a given day I probably only see one pair of dreadlocks among the shoppers... Not to mention if someone is willing to spend the money but not be obnoxious about it - what's the big deal? I know more than a handful of people who have straight up tried to make me feel BAD about eating things that aren't organic /grass fed / greek yogurt / ????? or what the fuck ever. Shit of that nature is what I think you guys should all be ranting and raving against, not some stupid fringe grocery business model that represents a small portion of the population.

Also hippies who provide confusing points and misinformation piss me off just as much as anybody else (anyone who has experience in the festival scene knows how fucking annoying Wooks are).
 

Famm

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How about bovine growth hormone? Because we all "know" that "Monsanto GMO milk and meat" is giving our kids early puberty and cancer and who knows what else.
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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How about bovine growth hormone? Because we all "know" that "Monsanto GMO milk and meat" is giving our kids early puberty and cancer and who knows what else.
Synthetic hormones are exactly the same thing that the cow already has in them naturally. The amount that makes it into the food product is so miniscule and so much lower than many other foods that have natural hormones in them, it's tough to imagine that there are any possible effects. That said, we stopped using hormones 10+ years ago because buyers will pay a small premium for non-implanted calves due to the "ick" factor that makes it kind of a wash whether you do it or not at least for us.

This picture came from the most unassailable source on the planet, my facebook feed, but I'm sure someone will debunk it if it's inaccurate.

ZIGvmu1.jpg
 
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Most Friedman market businessman (Neo-Liberals) will, on one hand, say the lack of government produces lower prices, but simultaneously exploit the government to prevent competition.
Well... They wouldn't be self-interested agents otherwise, now would they?

Seriously though, the strategic actions of the IPR holders pretty much pre-empt fair and reasonable contracting into a society, either in the Rawlsian or Habermasian sense.

The amusing and disheartening thing to see in this thread is how the origins and still the underpinning justification of IPR are forgotten: the embarrassment of a private monopoly is to be endured because it is necessary to bring about greater utility (good) as a whole. Instead the IPR expansionists repeat the problematic and critically flawed argument from Locke for the moral right to own immaterial property.

Of course, the utility argument doesn't save the IPR expansionists either, bringing us to my first point.
 

Caliane

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Synthetic hormones are exactly the same thing that the cow already has in them naturally. The amount that makes it into the food product is so miniscule and so much lower than many other foods that have natural hormones in them, it's tough to imagine that there are any possible effects. That said, we stopped using hormones 10+ years ago because buyers will pay a small premium for non-implanted calves due to the "ick" factor that makes it kind of a wash whether you do it or not at least for us.

This picture came from the most unassailable source on the planet, my facebook feed, but I'm sure someone will debunk it if it's inaccurate.

ZIGvmu1.jpg
yes that image isn't helpful.
they don't get birth control to children or men for a reason. (well, some men... but thats a different thread) But in general suggesting what is acceptable for one person also works for everyone else is flawed.
I mean, what if its glucose or something like that, where people have allergies? A 45% increase in that protein would probably be significant.

The other thing not addressed is how long any given chemical stays in the body.
Look at the colloidal silver people for what happens when that goes wrong.

Not going to pretend to know estrogen itself works out in those numbers, but the general thinking there isn't very safe. We SHOULD be double checking hormones, and chemicals we add to our foods constantly.
 

fanaskin

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If you think people act irrational vs genetically modified crops, wait till it's genetically modified humans.
 

iannis

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That will be eased into through the course of generations. Stuff like treating cystic fibrosis is pretty much the most we personally are going to ever see.

Because yeah, everyone is aware that you start shitting out superman mutant clones and the world is going to explode.
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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yes that image isn't helpful.
they don't get birth control to children or men for a reason. (well, some men... but thats a different thread) But in general suggesting what is acceptable for one person also works for everyone else is flawed.
I mean, what if its glucose or something like that, where people have allergies? A 45% increase in that protein would probably be significant.

The other thing not addressed is how long any given chemical stays in the body.
Look at the colloidal silver people for what happens when that goes wrong.

Not going to pretend to know estrogen itself works out in those numbers, but the general thinking there isn't very safe. We SHOULD be double checking hormones, and chemicals we add to our foods constantly.
Maybe you will like this one better:

estrogen-chart-remade-1024x891.jpg