GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Rais

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The show will be done before the the exit talks end and Britain becomes Great again. In the worse case, highly doubtful England won't give them breaks to keep filming there. It helps being people to come visit thus helps provide income, so this shit is more omg world ending click bait shit.
 

Debase

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As I understand it, the vast majority of the tax credits that GoT uses are UK-specific and not actually from the EU. That is not even mentioning the above that this will take 2 years to come to pass... at least.
 

Cybsled

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HBO responded to that story and claim they haven't dipped into those EU funds in a couple years.
 

Tuco

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enjoyed last sunday's episode with a few caveats:
1. Jon Snow did exactly that Sansa told him not to. I kind of hoped he'd develop into a smarter character by now.
2. Sansa was useless the entire season and once again only made relevant by those around her when she grudgingly agreed to help. She also did it in such a way that made it impossible for those around her to plan around her knowledge. I can just see Snow talking to her later, "Sansa, you knew that 2000 cavalry units were coming and you didn't say anything? People are dead, Wun Wun was the last of his kind!". Each Stark character is developing into their own, but Sansa is about as competent as she was in season2. She's not "playing the game" she's just randomly moving a board that contains only queens and plot armor.
3. The principle weakness of Ramsay Snow's character is that he inspires fear, not love from his troops, friends and allies. A better ending would be one that shows his forces defeated and him betrayed and given to the Starks (by the Karstarks or his own men).
 

BrutulTM

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enjoyed last sunday's episode with a few caveats:
1. Jon Snow did exactly that Sansa told him not to. I kind of hoped he'd develop into a smarter character by now.
2. Sansa was useless the entire season and once again only made relevant by those around her when she grudgingly agreed to help. She also did it in such a way that made it impossible for those around her to plan around her knowledge. I can just see Snow talking to her later, "Sansa, you knew that 2000 cavalry units were coming and you didn't say anything? People are dead, Wun Wun was the last of his kind!". Each Stark character is developing into their own, but Sansa is about as competent as she was in season2. She's not "playing the game" she's just randomly moving a board that contains only queens and plot armor.
3. The principle weakness of Ramsay Snow's character is that he inspires fear, not love from his troops, friends and allies. A better ending would be one that shows his forces defeated and him betrayed and given to the Starks (by the Karstarks or his own men).
John also did the exact opposite of what Davos told him to do. It wouldn't be very Stark-like of either John or Sansa to do something clever. If there's a characteristic of all of the Starks in this show it's that they are ruled by their emotions and not their brains. Smart people try to get them to make smart moves, but when it comes down to it they don't listen. This is true of Ned, Catlyn, Rob, Sansa, and Jon. Even Arya too really. Ramsay is the smart person in this contest and he plays John like a fiddle. If it wasn't for the Knights of the Vale showing up, they played into Ramsay's plan perfectly, which is very Stark-ish of them. The Starks are good people, but they almost never make the smart decision.
 

Voyce

Shit Lord Supreme
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enjoyed last sunday's episode with a few caveats:
1. Jon Snow did exactly that Sansa told him not to. I kind of hoped he'd develop into a smarter character by now.
Be Jon Snow.

Be born a bastard to house Stark and shunned by your step mom.

Join the Watch where you're forced into a devise role, and your own people plot your death several times.

Get caught by Wildlings, and forced to kill a fellow member of the Black to keep yourself alive.

Get some sweet redhead Wildling putang, only to be put in a position that compromises your morals forcing you to ride off while your ex plugs you with arrows.

Make it back to the Wall barley alive, only to have your people try to kill you for getting some action on the side.

Volunteer for a mission viewed as suicide, make it back alive, fight a bunch of Wildlings watch your piece of ass get off'd by the kid you're mentoring from Big Brothers Big Sisters.

Take a position of power, set out to rescue Wildlings, watch everything get fucked, lose dragon glass, come back, no one gives a shit about a giant undead horde, but oh no you let Wildlings past the wall! grab a handful of old lady tit's.

Get murdered by the kid you adopted from from those commercials--you know the one's, "Heart of an Angeeeel" ...

Experience nothing...

Get brought back by old skanky witch who believes in some other god that you don't even believe in. Who's god's are real, what should I believe in anymore?

Kill that little shit that betrayed you even after you let him sit next to you on the bus.

Go help your half sister take back your home, with like no fucking help.

"Oh Shit Sansa its that a trap? Well no fucking shit its a trap, who fucking cares? I should be dead anyway, If I do die I met get fucking resurrected and be even shittier. It's not like I had a big personality to begin with, I'm going to be a fucking robot at the end of this. Everyone sucks, I gave that kid my snack pack, my best friend is raising an incest baby, and can't go on hikes with me cause he's still fat even after being in the fucking Yukon for years.

I'm going to try to save my little brother, It will make me feel better even if he dies because I didn't give up on him, yes I will probably die, there's nothingness when I die. My options are: be pragmatic and try to win heavily outnumbered by staying alive to command my army as well as I can, or risk my life trying to save my little brother.

I fucking know that it was a trap, Sansa didn't tell me that she had a whole army on the way, I was pretty sure we were fucked either way. "






It was self serving, selfish arguably, he can say to himself in his head that he tried to save Rickon. But in a very objective sense, it was selfish, and may have been a tactical blunder, honestly they may have lost worse by not engaging earlier (removing the Vale from the equation--Jon didn't know the Vale was coming so it didn't factor into his calculations).

The thing is it's less stupidity and more reckless selflishness, it's not like Jon didn't realize Bolton was attacking his emotions, he tried to get into Ramsay's head a day earlier.
 

Tuco

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good response. After posting and thinking about it I'm reminded of this scene from the other show Littlefinger is in as the same character.



I want Jon Snow to be the next Aegon I Targaryen, not the next Eddard Stark.

I want Sansa Stark to be the next Queen of Thorns, not the next Catelyn Stark.

I want Arya Stark to be the next Jason Bourne, not a fuckup protected by plot armor.
 

hodj

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John also did the exact opposite of what Davos told him to do. It wouldn't be very Stark-like of either John or Sansa to do something clever. If there's a characteristic of all of the Starks in this show it's that they are ruled by their emotions and not their brains. Smart people try to get them to make smart moves, but when it comes down to it they don't listen. This is true of Ned, Catlyn, Rob, Sansa, and Jon. Even Arya too really. Ramsay is the smart person in this contest and he plays John like a fiddle. If it wasn't for the Knights of the Vale showing up, they played into Ramsay's plan perfectly, which is very Stark-ish of them. The Starks are good people, but they almost never make the smart decision.
George R R Martin draws his inspiration for the writing of his "good" characters from Spaceballs

 

Tuco

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reddit post that put the battle of the bastards in perspective. Maybe it's true and Jon has become a new man, but I think he's going to emo his way through the series.
[EVERYTHING] Jon's story in 'Battle of the Bastards' isn't what people think : gameofthrones

Jon's story this season has been about his death. Not the death of his body, which lasted a few episodes and about a single day in the in-universe timeline. This season has been about the death of his spirit, a much more meaningful death than mere flesh. The death of his spirit stretched out with pieces of Jon being chipped away until he had no hope, only fear and despair. That despair comes to a head when Rickon dies in front of him, and its why he charged the Bolton lines all alone. He wasn't fooled or lured out. He was looking for an end.
'Battle of the Bastards' isn't a story about fighting to regain a home or a title. 'Battle of the Bastards' is the story of Jon's resurrection.
People who say that Jon hasn't noticeably changed by coming back from death have missed the change, because they expected the change to be for the better. Jon's behavior this season has been characterized by fear. Fear of death, certainly. But more than that is fear of not having a say in his own fate. Jon's life has mostly sucked for the past 5 years, and then he was murdered by his own men. That would make anybody afraid of the future, that all its going to be is more shit and misery. As he says to Sansa:
Jon: I'm tired of fighting. Its all I've done since I left Winterfell... I've fought, and I lost.
Jon shows that fear every time he is reminded that he can't control his own fate. When anybody mentions his death, he looks like a beaten dog. When Sansa wants to retake Winterfell, he wants nothing to do with it, and he only agrees to it when Sansa presses him with the knowledge that Ramsey has Rickon. Even when he agrees, he looks afraid, like he wants to be anywhere in the world other than where he is, or maybe be anybody other than who he is.
This leads to the discussions the night before the battle. In talking with Sansa its clear that Jon doesn't believe they'll win, but he doesn't have any other choice than to follow the path he is on.
Sansa: Its not enough!
Jon: No its not enough, its what we have!
This is followed by one of the most devastating exchanges I've ever seen on the show.
Sansa: I'm not going back there alive. Do you understand me?
Jon: I won't ever let him touch you again. I'll protect you, I promise.
Sansa: No one can protect me. No one can protect anyone.
Setting aside what this says about Sansa's state of mind, this exchange is devastating to Jon's state of mind. Protecting Sansa is the only task Jon has willingly embraced since dying. Jon is only at Winterfell because of Sansa and Rickon, and now Sansa has declared that he is powerless to do the one thing he wants to do: protect his family.
This declaration of Jon's powerlessness is followed by his conversation with Melisandre where he asks Mel not to bring him back if he dies. Thats Jon trying to gain power over at least one thing: the ability to have it all end for good, and not be forced back into the shit and misery again. Mel won't even give him that, because she has to try, and its up to the Lord of Light as to whether or not Jon is brought back.
Mel: Maybe he brought you here to die again.
Jon: What kind of god would do something like that?
Mel: The one we've got.
At this point, Jon has control over nothing. He can't protect his family, he's on the verge of a battle he never wanted, he doesn't have enough men to have any real control over whether they win or lose, and he can't even trust that death will bring it all to an end. His hope for the future is hanging on by a thread.
Then Ramsey lets Rickon run across the field. Forget all that "Jon is a Stark who is loyal to his family" stuff. This is much simpler. The only thing Jon is living for at this moment is to protect the two family members he can. One of them just denied that he can protect her. The other one is running across the field with arrows flying down. When Rickon starts running across the field, there is only one thing left for Jon: protect his little brother. He has no power, only the thread of hope that he can do that.
Rickon dies, and the screen darkens as the camera looks down at him from Jon's perspective. When Jon looks at Ramsey its not with anger but with despair. The gods keep pouring shit down on Jon, and spat in the face of the last bit of hope he had.
Thats why he charges. True, there were arrows coming down that he was trying to outrun, but they were being released in volleys; he could have tried turning around and escaping between volleys. But he wasn't trying to escape the arrows, or lead his men to victory, or kill Ramsey. He was charging as a challenge to the gods, either to keep him alive or let him die in peace. When his horse goes down, he thinks he has an answer: the gods didn't bring him there to magically pull out a victory, they really did bring him there just to die again. But at the very last second his own men catch up, and he has to fight.
As the battle progresses, he finds himself buried beneath the bodies, the metaphor of the gods pouring misery down on his head suddenly becoming literal. He could have stopped there, give up and suffocate beneath the weight. Thats what makes the 'rebirth' scene so powerful: he claws his way back out and declares that he wants to live. Even Kit Harington describes the scene this way:
"When the crush starts happening, he slows down, and there's that thing of peace where he thinks: 'I could just stay here and let it all end.' "And then something drives him to fight up, and that moment when he comes up and grasps for breath, he is reborn again. . ."
After a season where Jon has wanted to run away, a season of fear and worry, a season where he has no control, he declares in the face of all of it that he still wants to live. This is followed almost immediately by defeat turning into victory, with the gods sending salvation in the form of saviors from the Vale. When Jon climbs over the bodies and stares down Ramsey, he has a look in his eyes he hasn't had all season, one that I don't think he's ever had on the show: the look of absolute intent, a man who knows what he wants and is about to go take it.
This season has been about Jon's death. First the death of his body. Then the death of his belief, and the death of his will. Then finally the death of his hope.
Only in the final minutes of 'Battle of the Bastards' has Jon truly returned to life, and now we'll finally see the change that everybody expected back when life returned to his body.
Jon always had the ice. Now he has the fire.
 

pharmakos

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first time this season i've read a wall of text about unspoken motives that i actually thought sounded believable.
 

Gavinmad

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Yeah that's all a bunch of bullshit. Jon is just a moron.

Don't get me wrong, I'm down with at least making the effort to save Rickon, but he should have accepted that Ramsay never would have let him go alive before he started galloping across the field, and when Rickon died he should have turned around and rode back to his lines.

first time this season i've read a wall of text about unspoken motives that i actually thought sounded believable.
It's very well written bullshit, but bullshit all the same.
 

Frenzied Wombat

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Actually, after re-watching that scene last night I got the impression that Jon HAD to charge forward, as arrows were loosed and if he had charged back he would have been skewered. Once he had made the stupid and fatal mistake of being baited out onto the field to save Rickon, the only way was forward.