GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Sylas, all of your "proof" relies on what we've seen and read. Except that we haven't seen or read about the dragons killing white walkers or the NK. So there is exactly as much evidence on both sides of the argument to say if the dragons are going to lolrape or the white walkers/NK are going to lol-rape: None.

You -like- the idea of the dragons being bullshit OP but have zero grounds to claim that they will be from any evidence in either the books or the show. Where has the proof been that the NK or the white walkers (almost nobody has mentioned the wights except to illustrate that they are scary to normal people but can be beaten with proper tactics) are vulnerable to fire? Specifically, the one white walker fighting Jon snow in the burning building seems to give zero fucks for the flame, and it visibly recoils from him. What evidence do we have that the dragon's fire is any different? There's none, in either the books or the show, aside from anecdotes at best. Point being, you're making a lot of claims and citing the show/books when the exact same claims (the NK/WW have no ability to fight the dragons) have the exact same amount of proof as the contrary claims (the dragons have no ability to fight the NK/WW) given the context within both the show and the books.

Look, I like dragons as much as the next guy, but you're pulling a lot of fan-fiction with zero basis in the written or produced works out of your ass and claiming them as facts. And even coming -close- to arguing "DEM" topics when the show is two seasons out and the books are two novels out is being completely ridiculous. Again, the simple fact that we've seen the NK or the WWs like 5-6 times combined tops, and the NK specifically has shown different powers in every scene? Means there's no DEM. And your definition of DEM does not apply to -either- argument, regardless how much you have settled upon your fan-fiction as being written/produced fact.

I loved the original title of this thread.

We know that dragons fuck up white walkers because dragonglass and valerian steel fuck them up and it's been telegraphed that these things are related.

Obviously something has to happen to create tension in the finale, either cersei killing/wounding dragons with something boring like a ballista, or nights king having powerful enough ice magic to battle one, or both and we get frost wyrms. None of these things are deus ex machina, they have already been established as things these characters can do.

I'm betting on cersei killing one, nights king coming south and ressing it, and bran having a warg battle to take control of it.

Sylas said:

Here's how the fight would go, dragons vs white walkers:
"hey, anyone hear that?" -in white walker language or high pitched hissing
"what?"
"sounded like something screeching. far away. not sure what it was"
looks up "What the..."
And they are all dead. Fin

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This...is really going on.

Tremendous.

It's all going to come crashing down once we see undead giants hurling massive spears at the dragons, which could easily take them out.

Nothing can hurt the White Walkers. That whole valerian steel/dragonglass nonsense? They just let everyone think that hurts them by casting their FD spell when they get hit by it. They just like playing with their food... like cats. And since they are cats they are just going to band together to form feet and legs, arms and body and in comes the night king to form the head.

Sylas said:

most readers are hoping that the night king has some kind of Deus Ex Machina enabling him to challenge the dragons and not just instantly lose, the dragon in the mist autism is part of that. The rumor for this season was dany fucks up somehow and loses one, (potentially in the naval battle with Euron, idk I didn't put much stock in that rumor) and the Night King ends up finding it, raising it and uses it as his steed. It's not like the motherfucker can put on a superman cape and start flying otherwise.

The history and lore repeatedly mentions giant ice spiders that the walkers ride in to combat. maybe those show up and one is a like a mexican jumping spider and can leap thousands of feet in the air, idk. Most people are hoping for some kind of Deus Ex Machina so that the final battle isn't so anticlimatic. Just hope whatever the night king pulls out his ass isn't too lulzy. Hate to get to the end and just jump the shark.

Everyone that is, except Araysar. Araysar and the retards parroting him think that the dragons we've known about for 5 books and 6 seasons are somehow Deus Ex Machina and whatever the Night King pulls out his ass, some ability or magic item completely unsupported and unheard of at any time in the 5k years of westeros history and lore which is known is somehow, not Deus Ex Machina.

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The night's king is a Warg. One of the dragons will turn on the other. And/or they will make a dead Targ dragon's bones rise and become an ice dragon.

The reason I say the warg thing is because the history works. Martin specifically wrote that powerful wargs could take over the body of the dying. Warging is an "ice magic", it comes from the Children. The first men and Children fought, and the Children created the white walkers out of first men (Which we know now, but it was the 'great evil' referenced in the book). This gave the children a fighting chance in the war, but they were losing still so they made peace. The Pact was set up, and the First Men adopted the Children's gods--they hooked themselves into ice magic. The First Men then got the power to warg and become greenseers.

After that point, after the "dawn age" (Thousands of years) the White Walkers return with an army of the undead. My theory is there was no army of the undead for the original White Walkers--they were simply really powerful turned men, but no zombies. However, we know White Walkers can make other WW's through the ritual. After thousands of years the White Walkers managed to snag a very powerful human warg and make him into a White Walker. The zombies? All that is, is Warging enhanced by the ice magic the Children used on WW--super warging, able to control things who no longer have a 'soul' of their own (The dead).

Anyway, one Dragon gets injured, Night King wargs that bitch, kills another. Only Jon's dragon is immune because he is of ice and fire, watches Dany get eaten, goes on and becomes king.

Sylas said:

then we can expect the NK to pull something out of his ass to counter them.

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Otherwise known as use a bunch of his powers that we clearly haven't seen all of, but of which he has many.

according to few youtubers i have listened to valaryian steel daggers/knives were common and therefore didn't garner names
have any others been brought up other than Little Finger's?

pharmakos said:

rofl'd at the ironic wall of text after this question. did not read.

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Much funnier to read them in comic book guy's voice. My brain nopes out after one or two sentences each time. @Amod can we make @Woolygimp notify sylas?

Agreed about the eagles but it's worth noting they first appear in The Hobbit. Their sudden appearance was meant more as a bedtime story 'surprise' for children. Wow! Eagles! That sort of thing. Then they appear in Lotr and by the time they rescue Frodo and Sam they have already been foreshadowed thus can't strictly qualify them as dem.

Not to mention their history is laid down in previous notes spanning decades, silmarillion etc. Their inclusion was part of what Tolkien called eucatastrophe, or an unexpected and positive turn of events when everything seems doomed. Whether it is a from of deus ex machina is arguable (I consider it dem) but it shows Tolkien was well aware of the eagles' role and the literary device was very much his intent.

Also the book was written in the 40s. Different sensibilities and all that. The Greek playwrights may seem outmoded but their innovations were quite influential, weren't they.

Skinchanging is not ice magic. Neither is greensight. It pertains to the first men. There is mention of a second life, a skingchanger leaving his body to avoid death, but no mention as yet of entering a dying one.

Let's call them all wargs cos who fucking cares but skinchanging is the term. Wargs are skingchangers that use wolves. Comes from varg, wolf.

The Night King as a greenseer/warg theory is interesting. Maybe he was and that coupled with white walkerness created backwards warging, ie wights? Btw is there any further evidence that night king and night's king are one and the same?

Southron wargs, cranes, lions, griffins, are mentioned in passing iirc during the age of heroes and the andal wars in twoiaf. The Ironborn descended from First Men have some warg blood. Rose of Red Lake from the Reach was a warg. The Griffin King in the Vale may have been a warg. It wasn't always a northern thing although, like direwolves, children, giants etc they were pushed north of the wall so I see how someone would think that.

The Night King getting himself an icy lich dragon would be some badass shit.

Wow. 2019? They ma y as well just admit that it's cancelled.

'Game of Thrones' Exclusive: HBO Clarifies Prequels, Final Seasons Plan

Video auto plays. It's pretty far down the page.

Merrith said:

It's all going to come crashing down once we see undead giants hurling massive spears at the dragons, which could easily take them out.

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Considering most the giants have 'died', would make complete sense.

I don't understand why humans could potentially fight dragons but anyone would think the white walkers can't. The actual walkers, the blue eyed intelligent ones, are just as smart as any humans (moreso, likely) and have powerful magic available to them. I'm sure they've got some ranged weapons stashed away, or the aforementioned Giants, or a spell of some kind, or the ice dragon, etc.. this idea that they can only do the things we've seen them do so far (attack on the ground in a zerg rush), which is really just the wights and not so much the elite walker guys, is short sighted.

Now, I'm sure the dragons are still 'super effective' against the walkers. Plus, they can help make more weapons to fight them with if I understand correctly how dragonglass is made.

iannis said:

Wow. 2019? They ma y as well just admit that it's cancelled.

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Whats in 2019? I missed whatever news you are referring to.

The final six episode "season".

So as of now, the final season could air in 2018 and/or in 2019 depending on their needs?
Yeah. They have to write the episodes and figure out the production schedule. We’ll have a better sense of that once they get further into the writing.

And they're working on prequels too!

The only prequel anyone is going to want to see is set in the far distant past with the wood-elves and the first men. And that will be too expensive to justify the production. But i'm sure what they're actually developing is reskinned version of Gotham.

GURRM didn't give them shit, in other words.

Sylas said:

now that wall of text is autism^2

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Thought you liked walls of text. Or is it only when they're full of shit.

I'll make sure to win your seal of approval next time.