GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Leon

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Right, after he died. The poison was preventing him from shitting while he was alive (muscle constriction? who the fuck knows)

Description of Widow's blood, the suspected poison.

Widow's blood, this one is called, for the color. A cruel potion. It shuts down a man's bladder and bowels, until he drowns in his own poisons."
-Grand Maester Pycelle, during Tyrion's trial
 

Talos

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There's also the part before Tyrion goes up the passageway, where Varys is trying to convince him to forget about it while at the same time giving him the exact instructions to get to the room. The crossbow was also just left laying around. Shae was also wearing the Hand's necklace so there's good reason to believe Tywin was actually banging her and she wasn't planted. The guards right outside the door are also talking about Shae and it wouldn't make sense for them to be randomly talking about her unless they had seen her going into the room. And let's not forget about what happened to Kevan. So it looks like Varys saw a good opportunity to get rid of Tywin (something he planned to do at some point anyway), but I don't think he planted Shae.
 

Leon

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At what point in the writing says he was poisoned or suffering from being poisoned?
It's not, like a lot of shit in the books, it's just implied or hinted at (the hound anyone?). Subtle things Martel said, little details, the fact the body was stinking right away and they couldn't get rid of the stench hint at something in the flesh (the widow's blood poison would fit right in there).
 

chaos

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If anything the necklace makes it seem less likely to me that Tywin was banging her. Because even if he was banging her, you expect me to believe that Tywin was catching feelings for Tyrion's leftovers? This is a man who looks down his nose at literally everyone else in the kingdom. No way he is going to fuck some nasty whore Tyrion picked up at a battle, and no way he would be giving that bitch tokens of affection. Tywin doesn't have affection.
 

Ao-

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If anything the necklace makes it seem less likely to me that Tywin was banging her. Because even if he was banging her, you expect me to believe that Tywin was catching feelings for Tyrion's leftovers? This is a man who looks down his nose at literally everyone else in the kingdom. No way he is going to fuck some nasty whore Tyrion picked up at a battle, and no way he would be giving that bitch tokens of affection. Tywin doesn't have affection.
You're ignoring the shit he's said about Jaime and how he felt about his wife, right?
 

chaos

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Yeah, then his wife died and he turned cold. Multiple people talk about that in the books.
 

Chukzombi

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Its an interesting theory, one i hadnt even considered. I just assumed that tywin was fucking shae because he wanted petty revenge on tyrion or he wanted to fuck her because he got horny and shae was under his command due to sparing her life and making her testify against tyrion. The poison angle is also interesting., though unless varys admits to it, then we likely never find out for sure. Maybe varys also tried to have tyrion killed at the river battle
 

Soygen

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Even cold sons of bitches like Tywin want to get their dick wet. I totally believe he was fucking Shae. Why not? I like to think he got laid on his last night alive.
 

Chanur

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I don't have a problem with Tywin banging whores despite hos comments saying It's below him. How ever he was not banging Shae . That was all Varys.
 

Hekotat

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Re-reading through the series again and found this passage that makes me believe that Young Griff is a fake.


"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."


From deductive reasoning I think the following are..

The Kraken is Victarion
The sun's son is Quentyn
The Lion is possibly Tyrion
The Griffon is Jon Connington
The mummer's dragon is Young Griff


But who the fuck is the pale mare and the dark flame?
 

Flank_sl

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I would guess Kraken and dark flame = Victarion with his red priest

Pale mare is a plague. Wasn't there a plague outside mereen?
 

Chrisd_sl

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Have no belief in the theory Varys set Tyrion up to kill Tywin, but full belief in Oberyn poisoning Tywin, it was beautifully put together.
 

Chukzombi

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i dunno how Oberyn could have poisoned him. i think its just as likely a FM did it. im still im not sure he was poisoned at all. all we have to go on is he had to take a shit and his body stunk at the funeral. not a hell of a lot. need better clues than that.
 

Feanor

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Chukzombi

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no i havent read that. thanks very much for the link. when you take all that stuff and put it together, it certainly sounds possible oberyn did poison him. is that the same poison he used to feather the Mountain with? also whether someone else did poison tywin. tyrion is still the murderer of his father. it really doesnt change anything. oberyn is dead so i dunno how it can be confirmed unless perhaps ella??
 

Chrisd_sl

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If it was always part of Doran's plan to bring down House Lannister (and likely pave the way for Viserys/Arianne which became Quentyn/Dany) then Doran could reveal it, or Arianne or one of the Sandsnakes as they seem to have been let into his confidence now.

There's also the consideration of how Oberyn would have expected it to play out. Oberyn couldn't know someone else was going to kill Tywin. So the most likely course of events is Tywin lingers and dies painfully and people come to the conclusion it was Oberyn by poison, indeed if Cersei didn't have a hard on for Tyrion he would have been blamed for Joff's death. But Oberyn is essentially untouchable while Dorne have Myrcella, he'd be accused, probably arrested, but they couldn't execute him, not without a trial at least. He'd be able to demand a trial by combat, and of course the Lannisters would go to either Jaime or the Mountain, which evidently would suit Oberyn fine. So in his mind he wins his trial by combat and takes out another of his Elia's murderers, and despite everyone knowing exactly what he did he'd have to be let go free, which is exactly what Dorne has had to endure, knowing full well who is responsible for murdering Elia and her children but not being able to do a thing about it. It likely goes back to the snake in the grass plan that Doran talks about with the Sandsnakes and Arianne when he laments Oberyn's death.