GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Homsar · Jun 8, 2015

Tuco_sl said:
Well, I think it was a do or die moment for Stannis. He basically had three choices:
1. Go into exile with his family / take the black and hope his family is taken care of by some lord.
2. Make a suicide seige and all his men and entire family die.
3. Kill Shireen and hope Melisandre is right.
4. Retreat to Castle Black where he and his family will likely stay until the Doomsday winter is over.
.

Didnt Davos say they couldnt movie forword with the weather and they would die from starvation before they could get to castle black. He had no choice unless he wanted everyone to die

Siliconemelons · Jun 8, 2015

Maester Chuk_sl said:
what are you responding to? i said winterfell is only one of the seven kingdoms, its a big place geographically, but otherwise its not a worthy effort in murdering your only child, he wasnt going to die, he sent davos back to the wall for supplies, we know he was just sending him away so he wouldnt try to stop stannis from killing shireen, but he also needs supplies, the red god could thaw out the weather maybe?

ok so what if he can, he still has to march to winterfell and siege it with no food or siege weapons. even if you have a mcdonalds and a cabelas sitting right outside the wall, unless you have a way to destroy its fortifications and men inside, you will still die. his best bet was to start back to castle black, or find an ally who hates the boltons to hole up with or not even go to winterfell at the start of winter in the first place.

He said that forward (winterfell) would be death, staying where they are is death and that they wouldn't make it back to the wall either (death) - sending a few men to the wall is doable because you can supply them...but that's it.. his army would die one way or the other- staying, forward or back - death... Stannis has always been this stoic hard rock of a character - but people should have known something bad was going to happen when he hugged her.. and I think the "magic" better be damned big- if the leeches killed their named people- then an entire kid worth of blood better do a hell of a lot.. and also note that he technically sacrificed his 2nd born son to become a shadow death baby to kill his very own brother.

Homsar · Jun 8, 2015

xadion_sl said:
and I think the "magic" better be damned big- if the leeches killed their named people- then an entire kid worth of blood better do a hell of a lot.. and also note that he technically sacrificed his 2nd born son to become a shadow death baby to kill his very own brother.

Leaches didnt kill people, just let her know who would die so they could know future events and plan

Adam12 · Jun 8, 2015

xadion_sl said:
To me its also the most sound theory... so that means GRRM will say "NOOO!!! Now I have to come up with something no one has guessed!" and come up with some really crazy off the wall crap.. hell I think that's why he has not spat out the recent book yet.

R+L=Dany while Ned (or Brandon) + Ashara = Jon seems to be the best theory to me.

Drinsic · Jun 8, 2015

Mel says Jon's got power in his blood. Don't think they'd throw that line in there if George didn't confirm the theory that Jon is Rhaegar's kid.

khorum · Jun 8, 2015

Why would Ned lie about Ashara being Jon's mom if that's the case? Even if Brandon was the father and not Ned himself.

Chukzombi · Jun 8, 2015

i also want to add that stannis has no clue whats in winterfell, he doesnt know how well stocked the boltons are, we know they got 6 months of food stored and maybe a few hundred men? stannis has what? 5000 men or something? how long is that going to last him? i just dont understand why he would ever make a journey like this in maybe the worst possible time. the worst part was he knew all this and went ahead anyway. when this red god thaw ends and winter hits him full force he is fucked. in the books it still seemed weird , but at least i was on board because it was part of an oceans 11-esque rescue mission. the show makes it look like the whim of a willful madman.

Gavinmad · Jun 8, 2015

Homsar_sl said:
Leaches didnt kill people, just let her know who would die so they could know future events and plan

Is this actually confirmed in the text, or is it just speculation based on the fact that she has tacitly admitted being half a charlatan to the reader? Because she was able to use the vagina monster twice in the books, it wasn't just Renly. Now it does suggest that if she had to summon a vagina monster to kill Renly and Ser Penrose, she probably couldn't kill Robb, Balon, and Joffrey just from dropping leeches in a fire, but who knows for sure?

Tuco · Jun 8, 2015

Maester Chuk_sl said:
i also want to add that stannis has no clue whats in winterfell, he doesnt know how well stocked the boltons are, we know they got 6 months of food stored and maybe a few hundred men? stannis has what? 5000 men or something? how long is that going to last him? i just dont understand why he would ever make a journey like this in maybe the worst possible time. the worst part was he knew all this and went ahead anyway. when this red god thaw ends and winter hits him full force he is fucked. in the books it still seemed weird , but at least i was on board because it was part of an oceans 11-esque rescue mission. the show makes it look like the whim of a willful madman.

Yep. The whole trip up North was ill-conceived.

Chukzombi · Jun 8, 2015

xadion_sl said:
He said that forward (winterfell) would be death, staying where they are is death and that they wouldn't make it back to the wall either (death) - sending a few men to the wall is doable because you can supply them...but that's it.. his army would die one way or the other- staying, forward or back - death... Stannis has always been this stoic hard rock of a character - but people should have known something bad was going to happen when he hugged her.. and I think the "magic" better be damned big- if the leeches killed their named people- then an entire kid worth of blood better do a hell of a lot.. and also note that he technically sacrificed his 2nd born son to become a shadow death baby to kill his very own brother.

those men are expendable, the iron bank helped buy them. he would make it back but he would probably hemmorage troops like crazy in doing so, as long as he kept a stash of food for the journey back and fed the men enough to survive, possible cannibalism ensuing, he would make it, but it would fuck his soldier/horse forces. either way, retreat was a much better option than killing your daughter for some better weather so you can just jerk off outside of a fotress with no way to get in. he literally has no means of achieving his goals.

Lenas · Jun 8, 2015

Stannis really has no choice now though. He either retreats back to the wall and gives up his crusade, or he takes Winterfell and holes up there during the long night to restart his campaign once Spring returns, or he dies in the snow outside of Winterfell. He was faced with burning his daughter or giving up his entire life's worth of work plus the thousands of lives his soldiers had given throughout the story.

Noodleface · Jun 8, 2015

Maester Chuk_sl said:
those men are expendable, the iron bank helped buy them. he would make it back but he would probably hemmorage troops like crazy in doing so, as long as he kept a stash of food for the journey back and fed the men enough to survive, possible cannibalism ensuing, he would make it, but it would fuck his soldier/horse forces. either way, retreat was a much better option than killing your daughter for some better weather so you can just jerk off outside of a fotress with no way to get in. he literally has no means of achieving his goals.

He believes he has the means with the lord of light guiding his journey.

Lenas · Jun 8, 2015

If they filmed it as written it would have been Dany's most empowering moment and the SJWs would be singing praises of the mighty Khaleesi. Unfortunately they went Disney. I thought Emilia might be up for a little more stunt work considering she's going to be Sarah Conor.

Mist · Jun 8, 2015

Terial_sl said:
what's odd is that last week, little miss fire witch said that she needed the blood, unless this just meant sacrifice??
Last time they collected blood via leaches, which she said she could not, so how exactly did they get the blood this time?

She lit the leeches on fire if you remember. The leeches were just a mechanism to get the blood to the fire.

kaid · Jun 8, 2015

Tuco_sl said:
Well, I think it was a do or die moment for Stannis. He basically had three choices:
1. Go into exile with his family / take the black and hope his family is taken care of by some lord.
2. Make a suicide seige and all his men and entire family die.
3. Kill Shireen and hope Melisandre is right.
4. Retreat to Castle Black where he and his family will likely stay until the Doomsday winter is over.

So even though it was just Winterfell, his justification is strong. What isn't shown is how he thinks he can go from Winterfell to anywhere. He might be able to take Winterfell and the Lords of the North will thank him as he kills Ramsay and leaves Sansa in charge, but he's not going to be able to enlist the North to go attack the South. There's no breaking moment where all of a sudden he has a force that can take King's Landing. That ended at the Battle of Blackwater.

This to some extent is why he wanted Jon snow as lord of winterfel. If he could not only retake winterfel but solidify his alliance with the lord in the north combined they could potentially have had the power to push their way to kings landing especially given the utter lack of leadership left there.

kaid · Jun 8, 2015

Homsar_sl said:
Didnt Davos say they couldnt movie forword with the weather and they would die from starvation before they could get to castle black. He had no choice unless he wanted everyone to die

Yes with the food supplied destroyed they literally could not make it back to the wall as an army and they could not hope to push forward without taking out winterfel. Falling back to the wall would mean sacrificing a big part of his army to starvation and then basically being stuck there until spring comes again and he knows he may not even live long enough to see spring again.

Chukzombi · Jun 8, 2015

Noodlemod_sl said:
He believes he has the means with the lord of light guiding his journey.

ok lets say you are right and this will happen, these are the things stannis needs.

no blizzards and warmer weather for a few weeks.
plenty of food for the journey/siege
siege weapons to penetrate the outer walls
enough men so that he still has a cohesive kingdom conquesting army after taking winterfell

will that one sacrifice provide all these things? will a re-destroyed winterfell be a worthy stronghold for the winter?

of course i am talking about one of their normal winters, not this winter which has WWs, ice zombies or ice spiders. everyone is fucked if that happens.

-edit
this video brought up some interesting points about dorne
why would tyene's sister call her a slut for flirting with bronn? i thought in dorne they dont judge? why would doran send away his son to the the asshole lannisters? why no dany plan? lots of headscratching going on this week.

McFly · Jun 8, 2015

I guess I don't remember but is Gendry (sp) still alive? I know they took his blood, but I don't recall seeing him ever again after that.

brekk · Jun 8, 2015

Couldn't Melisandre have gone full lesbo with Shireen to try and make an Lesbian shadow monster.

Sceleris_sl · Jun 8, 2015

Might you forget there's a few people inside winterfell and there's catacombs under winterfell with undoubtedly an exit outside it's walls. Stannis will get help from Reek, go through the catacombs at night, claim the lord of light favoured him thanks to his sacrifice and wins the North. OR draw the Boltons out as he captures the dreadfort instead. All in all i am pretty sure thanks to the lord of light, some help or good fortune will come.

After episode 8, i am pretty damn sure there is only 1 thing that can save westeros from winter and certain death...And that is Daenerys and her dragons.

GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

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