GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings
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Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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This thread is horrible every season, but this season will be extra special!
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Dorne stuff is pretty terrible in the books too, so...
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night." - some pretentious emo sparkle vampire dornish twit.
Martin's better written plot points stopped around book 3. Every once in a while there's a diamond in the rough but it's mostly filler garbage. At this point I think most people just want to get to the end.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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Right, but having the major plot points and whatnot is great, and so of course many of the major plot points will be canon when (if) the books release (never).
But there are a lot of times where the writers of the show have been able to draw on the actual written story for things like really solid lines from characters like Tyrion or whatever that help immensely to elevate the writing of the show in the past, which they no longer have access to.
So that's why its essentially fan fiction. We've got all Martin's major plot points, but we can't write to the calibre that he does in terms of actually turning a phrase in such a way as to make it memorable, thus what you get is a sort of hackneyed version of Martin's writing as a result.
Hence why I will simply consider the show from here going on to be non-canonical in most ways, and basically just fan service at this point.
I believe this mindset will prevent me from being as irritated in the bad writing of this show going forwards as I am at the bad writing in The Walking Dead.
Yeah I agree. The first three books are the best written of the series too, by far.
I've long said I consider the first three books to just be a complete trilogy, with some plot points left open for a follow up series, which is what I consider everything after them.
The first three books are so well rounded that, even with major plot points left open, the ending of the third book feels like a satisfying conclusion to the series in a lot of ways.
And yeah, I think we all just want Martin to complete the series before he dies. Especially if you were a Robert Jordan fan in the 90s and have already seen this happen before, where an obese old fantasy author digs himself too deep a hole and he can't fill it back in before his heart gives out from the effort.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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I read the books last year after being spoiled so I never visited this thread before that. The non spoiler thread has had to deal with the book readers playing undercover with their theories for fucking years. The non spoiler thread also didn't have to deal with Captain obvious constantly saying how things are different from the book. They also haven't been writing this season in their head for 5 seasons.
So now more of those people are coming here to watch the crying and it's fucking glorious. I think people would be kinder to the book readers if they knew that a non book reader (Astr0) was in here torturing you people.
Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I get book people being butthurt over Hotah, but Barristan at least mowed down ~10 guys before buying it. Hotah getting offed with a knife in the back from a 15 year old is not the same at all.
Royal
Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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Yeah. It was a low calorie way of closing up shop in Dorne and they weren't even quality calories. The difference though is that Ser Barristan had been extensively built up within the show as a consummate badass while Hotah wasn't built up into anything at all.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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I'm not trying to be all tin-foil-hatty here, I'm just saying it's interesting.
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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Why can't there be a canon for books and canon for the TV show? There's two different versions, one isn't any more "correct" than the other
Generally, I agree, but I thought Hardhome was one of the best TV battle sequences.
Royal
Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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I don't see how "Jon, dead or alive?" hooks anyone who hasn't been paying to watch the episodes as they air already. For people who don't carry an HBO sub and don't get it from a pirated source it's too deep into the series to hook them with an episode like the last one.
Frenzied Wombat
Potato del Grande
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This. As each season passes there are less sub-plots to choose from, and consequently less actual relevant written dialogue to source as well. Since the show's writers can't compete with George's use of language, it becomes rather obvious and jarring when they switch from source material to filler. Two big examples in the last episode was the weepy scene between Jaime and Cersei, as well as the scene with Varys and Tyrion-- both contained lame dialogue uncharacteristic of George's writing..
Royal
Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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Big example #3 is the back and forth between Khal Moro and his bloodriders.
Cad
scientia potentia est
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That part was extremely uncharacteristic of this show, like it belonged on Silicon Valley or Monty Python.
I kinda think we've been off in "not how it's going to happen in the books" land for quite a while, the show has been consolidating and eliminating plot lines for a long time while adding detours to others.
The reasonable conclusion is that eliminated plot lines don't go anywhere in the books and they're axing them in the show to save time. The big question is, why bother with the plot development in Dorne if that whole thing went nowhere? Why not just pick it up this season and introduce the sand snakes, have them murder Doran, and go from there? Why introduce a bunch of characters and spend time with them just to dispose of them in a shitty way?
Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Right, which is why from a pure show perspective, nothing wrong with it other than it being a very hasty plot they are shedding/changing. I get why book people might be annoyed, but they should have expected more big changes. I kind of got tired of all the "this guy is a badass" power level comparisons in the books. Every great warrior can still make a simple mistake that gets them killed. Just look at Oberyn.
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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They usually blow their wad on at least one really good action sequence per season. It's the other ones that tend to be shit.
Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I guess I'm in the minority that liked the scene with Varys and Tyrion. Maybe the dialogue was a step down from some previous seasons, but the actors still carry the scene well enough that it really didn't matter. They got their point across just fine. I really do wonder what the end game is though when you think about that group getting back to Dany, or getting back over to Westeros. Especially considering in the books Tyrion never was in Dany's court prior to her flying off.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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That scene was so close to being hysterical, but it tripped and fell flat. I think the actors were playing it right, the bloodriders weren't actually making fun of their Khal, they were answering his question so literally that it bordered on autism. It's the kind of scene that probably would have been pretty damn funny if we'd actually been more familiar with Moro and his bloodriders, instead of having only met them 60 seconds ago. I think they could have salvaged that scene by doing more to play up Moro's irritation at their answers, maybe even have them interrupting him or something. Then the 'it is among the 5 greatest things' line he used to shut them up would have worked a lot better.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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That's basically what I'm saying, except the book canon is clearly the correct one, as it is the one written entirely by the original author and, presumably, will represent the closest thing anyone can come to accurately reflecting the story he has created in his mind.
I mean, for me personally, I'm giving the original author superiority over others in regards to his canon.
Or, in the case he dies, then I'm giving Brandon Sanderson the backup superiority over others in regards to his canon.
I hope that joke gets at least a minor chuckle from somebody.
Solely because of the Mountain stuff and the duel between him and whathisfacewhonowicantremember which sets up Sir Giant and Doesn't Talk whose name I also forget.
They did build up his blood riders as being a bit of jokesters with their interaction between them and Dany. But I think the oddity lies in the fact that the Khals are generally fairly non-nonsense so if a blood rider even started to argue with his Khal the Khal would just rip his head off.