Gov't Regulation for Games Discussion- DLC related

Namon · Nov 28, 2017

I'm all for Subs, even in single player games. I'd rather just pay a flat 10 bucks a month and unlimited chances to score loot in game, and have constant content additions, than 1 buck 500 times over to get shots at loot. And I think DLC is a bad term because any more an expansion is DLC... which is totally fine in pretty much anyone's books. Then you have stuff like the sparkle horse from WoW or item packs of all cosmetic armor. Shadier for sure, but still somewhat OK in my books. Then you have the lootbox bullshit or what amounts to arcade games where it's a buck to continue playing. That shit can die in a fire.

With that said, I'm not sure how I feel about Government stepping in. Not that I don't think the loot box thing isn't a shitty as hell practice, it's just the government regulating anything ends up being an even bigger mess than what it was before. Loot boxes won't go away... they will just only be allowed for certain "friends" of the officials.

Punko · Nov 28, 2017

Belgium will want to tax them. They will be fine to be sold, it will most likely be judged if you are old enough to make the online payment that you are old enough to responsibly decide if its worth it.

Carta mundi is in Belgium, it prints all kind of loot boxes. Also we like our (online) casino's because money.

Mao · Nov 28, 2017

I don't see how you all can think the government getting too involved with loot boxes is a good thing. The way forward from there is scary if you think of the full ramifications. Magic the Gathering booster packs? Gambling, cause you don't know whats inside and it has real value. Buying those little figurine boxes with the random figurine in it? Gambling, cause its a random chance and based on rarity they have different values. There is so much shit they can start to bill as 'gambling' and it just lets the government get more involved in our shit and regulating crap. And I can't believe for a moment they have our best interests in mind at all.

This whole stink just seems to be because of the public furor over EA being shitheels and them feeling they have enough public backing cause of the outcry to get their grubby hands into another regulatory field to enlarge their fiefdoms and tax more things. The only thing I would be for is a clear listing of the odds involved, and if it is found that the company is publishing false odds data they get sued. Not entirely certain, but I think that's how it currently is in China of all places. If I remember from Dota they had to publish the odds of their rares and very rares in order to sell their treasures online there.

Punko · Nov 28, 2017

Its not all bad in Europe.

My mobile provider has to call me at least once a year to tell me if I could get a cheaper formula. Electricity and gas providers have to mention alternative formulas that are cheaper on their invoices. Stuff like that.

zombiewizardhawk · Nov 28, 2017

Vaclav said:
When it comes to the shit kids can buy? Seriously... I don't think it's too much of an issue for adults like us, but when stuff that 10-15 yr olds play are effected as well and you're expecting kids that we've got different laws in place because kids are often understood to not have restraint....

I know it's tough with your meth-addled brain, but think about someone beyond yourself.

Where do kids age 10-15 get their money from, since it's illegal for them to work (at least in the US)?

Vaclav · Nov 28, 2017

zombiewizardhawk said:
Where do kids age 10-15 get their money from, since it's illegal for them to work (at least in the US)?

a) Plenty of kids are given a credit card at a young age now either a real one or a bank card and they don't have to work to get an allowance. Not to mention kids that aren't lazy fucks mow lawns and deliver papers/etc. Formal W-2 jobs are very limited for those under 15 (barring farm work, I think that's allowed starting at 12? It's outside of my sphere of direct knowledge, but I know I've heard it as a trivia thing before) but there's plenty of ways for kids to get money. Not to mention, trusts yada-yada-yada.
b) Plenty of kids that AREN'T have a credit card on file because their parents authorize some stuff.

Ambiturner · Nov 28, 2017

zombiewizardhawk said:
Yeah! We need the government to step in and control things for us because we don't have the self control to decide how we want to spend our money and it's impossible to simply choose not to purchase a game if you don't like the product a company is offering!

Governments need to start regulating the restaurant industry too. It's ludicrous that my meal gets split into so many pieces and I have to buy them all individually! Drinks, salad, soup, entree, desert, appetizers, the fucking MTX is out of control! Please government fix it for us!

As much as I hate microtransactions and bs DLC I hate the idea of government coming in like Mommy and Daddy and regulating things away because stupid people lack basic self control even more

Punko · Nov 28, 2017

Vaclav said:
a) Plenty of kids are given a credit card at a young age now either a real one or a bank card and they don't have to work to get an allowance. Not to mention kids that aren't lazy fucks mow lawns and deliver papers/etc. Formal W-2 jobs are very limited for those under 15 (barring farm work, I think that's allowed starting at 12? It's outside of my sphere of direct knowledge, but I know I've heard it as a trivia thing before) but there's plenty of ways for kids to get money. Not to mention, trusts yada-yada-yada.
b) Plenty of kids that AREN'T have a credit card on file because their parents authorize some stuff.

None of that is legal under 16 here.

Credit card you need to be at least 18 and be able to prove a consistent form of income. Allowance doesn't count, has to be a real job or replacement income.

Vaclav · Nov 28, 2017

Punko said:
None of that is legal under 16 here.

Credit card you need to be at least 18 and be able to prove a consistent form of income. Allowance doesn't count, has to be a real job or replacement income.

That an EU thing overall or just Belgium? Because there's been plenty of "kids using their parents CC issues" from across the pond - I've seen UK I know for sure. But yea, if kids are kept away from digital dollars that mitigates it a ton.

Punko · Nov 28, 2017

The EU countries that matter don't have kids working at 15 or letting them get their own credit card. The UK is not one of those.

In actual EU countries the kids can't get their own card, and consumers have various options to recover their money, which is settled out of court as companies realise its futile to contest such claims.

For example, I bought gold to use on the blizzard RMAH, they changed the max gold values, which basically doubled the prices of items and halved the value of my gold .. took me 1 call to their CS to get a refund. Paypal itself has a procedure for cancelling orders placed by kids (fraud by relatives or something iirc), and there is always the chargeback option CC's come with, the free court assistance insurances offer, the coverage the bank itself offers, .. pretty hard to lose your money that way tbh.

Managing peoples expenditures is a pretty large part of the policy in western europe. You pay most taxes up front or on purchase for example, downpayments are discouraged in governement campaigns and stores have a lot of obligations when it comes to offering them .. of course some retards still manage to ruin themselves, but you can't help everyone.

zombiewizardhawk · Nov 28, 2017

Vaclav said:
a) Plenty of kids are given a credit card at a young age now either a real one or a bank card and they don't have to work to get an allowance. Not to mention kids that aren't lazy fucks mow lawns and deliver papers/etc. Formal W-2 jobs are very limited for those under 15 (barring farm work, I think that's allowed starting at 12? It's outside of my sphere of direct knowledge, but I know I've heard it as a trivia thing before) but there's plenty of ways for kids to get money. Not to mention, trusts yada-yada-yada.
b) Plenty of kids that AREN'T have a credit card on file because their parents authorize some stuff.

So shitty parents give their 12 year old a credit card (lol i'm fucking almost 33 and don't have a credit card) and let them do whatever they want, and so we need the government to regulate video games? And i'm the meth addled retard?

You know what happened when I was a kid and spent all my money on something? I didn't have money to buy more shit, regardless of how much I wanted it. It's almost the same as what happens with adults. Like someone else mentioned: What's next? Trading card game packs? Sports card packs (do people still collect baseball/basketball/football cards?)? Restaurants who are scamming money from fat people by splitting up the menu into multiple courses that you have to pay for individually?

Fat people can't control themselves when it comes to eating, so like I said before, we need the government to step in and regulate restaurants from charging for every course of a meal. They should all be included at one low price! Think of the fat people!

The government should regulate cell phones. Cell phone manufacturers can now only make a new model every 5 years because some parents buy their kids $1000 phones and a new one comes out every 6 months and they absolutely have to have it. Think of the children!

zombiewizardhawk · Nov 28, 2017

Punko said:
None of that is legal under 16 here.

Credit card you need to be at least 18 and be able to prove a consistent form of income. Allowance doesn't count, has to be a real job or replacement income.

Yeah he's talking about shitty parents who give their 12 year old kid a black card so they can get scammed out of 6 figures by the evil game companies taking advantage of their lack of impulse control (because they're 12).

A parent giving their child a credit card/bank card to do whatever they want with is literally no different than the parent (who he claims can make logical decisions on whether or not to purchase a product) buying all of that stuff for them instead of giving the kid the money to buy it.

Vaclav · Nov 28, 2017

zombiewizardhawk said:
Yeah he's talking about shitty parents who give their 12 year old kid a black card so they can get scammed out of 6 figures by the evil game companies taking advantage of their lack of impulse control (because they're 12).

A parent giving their child a credit card/bank card to do whatever they want with is literally no different than the parent (who he claims can make logical decisions on whether or not to purchase a product) buying all of that stuff for them instead of giving the kid the money to buy it.

I'm talking about both - plenty of kids provide their own money these days too. And are you seriously saying you don't have a BANK ACCOUNT? Because nearly every Debit Card is usable as a CC now.

And it LITERALLY is quite different - authorizing a transaction one time to help a kid out often isn't intended by a parent to be a carte blanche for the kid to continue to use it - in the "store" analogy the parent would eventually say "WHOA! Stop throwing stuff in the cart" and put stuff back before checking out. Whereas for this stuff the parent finds out a month or more later when they get the statement, possibly even longer because they don't micromanage their transaction history.

zombiewizardhawk · Nov 28, 2017

Since when do stores save the cvc code when they offer to save information for easier checkout? Since when can a parent not uncheck the save info box? Link me some stories of kids under the age of 15 who are making themselves a bunch of money and being taken advantage of by MTX in games. Link me some proof of 14 year olds getting their own credit cards.

Siliconemelons · Nov 28, 2017

People are pissed at DLC and loot crates because, the "conservative" "traditional" games did not like them and said they were problems but the "progressive" new gamers were like "Its the future, thats how games are now- it only ADDS TO THE GAME"

and here we are - slippery sloped down to where 50$+ AAA Retail box games are essentially demos waiting for you to shell out more money to really "play the game" and "feel a sense of accomplishment" etc.

Cry about big bad guberment regulating, but then praise the companies while they push further and further then wonder why.

Its a balance, and its very off right now.

Vaclav · Nov 28, 2017

zombiewizardhawk said:
Since when do stores save the cvc code when they offer to save information for easier checkout? Since when can a parent not uncheck the save info box? Link me some stories of kids under the age of 15 who are making themselves a bunch of money and being taken advantage of by MTX in games. Link me some proof of 14 year olds getting their own credit cards.

Re: CVVs (I'd never heard of CVC but apparently it's a dated version of the name for it or something?) most save it these days. I haven't entered mine on PSN or Steam except when I've had a replacement card I needed to enter. And plenty (for example PSN) don't have an option to not save info - PSN's option is "buy games under a different account and make the kids a subaccount under yours" - which I can guarantee most parents don't want to take the time to screw with. (unless there's another method I've missed - only option that's easy to find is "double check password when purchasing" but that's just the same as the normal account one, so doesn't do any real good for anyone that should be logged into it)

And kids absolutely can buy and use prepaid cards. I know I've seen kids use bank card ones, but from what I can see online that requires a cosigner - I'll toss the question at my banker tomorrow though, I've got to visit Wells tomorrow anyhow.

zombiewizardhawk · Nov 28, 2017

It has like 5 different acronyms, idiot. Prepaid cards are not credit cards (which allow you to spend money you don't have), idiot.

You're just trying to use "but the innocent children!" as an excuse to justify why you think the government should step in and force video game companies to provide you with a product that you personally want when you already admitted that adults were capable of deciding whether or not a product was worth the cost or if they should just not buy it. Link some evidence about 12 year olds getting taken advantage of by the evil game companies due to their lack of impulse control and it having some impact other than buyers remorse (because adults get that shit with products all the time in every possible place) or stfu with your think of the children bullshit.

Hekotat · Nov 28, 2017

Mao said:
I don't see how you all can think the government getting too involved with loot boxes is a good thing. The way forward from there is scary if you think of the full ramifications. Magic the Gathering booster packs? Gambling, cause you don't know whats inside and it has real value. Buying those little figurine boxes with the random figurine in it? Gambling, cause its a random chance and based on rarity they have different values. There is so much shit they can start to bill as 'gambling' and it just lets the government get more involved in our shit and regulating crap. And I can't believe for a moment they have our best interests in mind at all.

This whole stink just seems to be because of the public furor over EA being shitheels and them feeling they have enough public backing cause of the outcry to get their grubby hands into another regulatory field to enlarge their fiefdoms and tax more things. The only thing I would be for is a clear listing of the odds involved, and if it is found that the company is publishing false odds data they get sued. Not entirely certain, but I think that's how it currently is in China of all places. If I remember from Dota they had to publish the odds of their rares and very rares in order to sell their treasures online there.

Those little figurine boxes piss me off, There is a tracer one I want but I refuse to buy random boxes to get it.

Palum · Nov 28, 2017

So just got off the phone with my congressman's office, they called me back from my submitted comments. They sent an inquiry today to the ESRB and the CTA about the inclusion of using real money to gamble for outcomes in gaming and on electronic devices. They also sent e-mails to several ranking house committee members to bring it to their attention and asked that I leave a comment for the oversight and government reform committee to show my concern for this growing issue.

zombiewizardhawk · Nov 28, 2017

Hekotat said:
Those little figurine boxes piss me off, There is a tracer one I want but I refuse to buy random boxes to get it.

Good thing you aren't a kid between the age of 10-15 or you'd spend 4-6 figures to get it on your credit card, according to Vaclav.

Gov't Regulation for Games Discussion- DLC related

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