Gov't Regulation for Games Discussion- DLC related

  • Guest, it's time once again for the hotly contested and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and fill out your bracket!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Once again, only you can decide!

Daezuel

Potato del Grande
22,812
48,093
We need more dick knob intellectuals telling us how letting these scumbags get away with this shit is cool, because all government is bad or something. I mean, hopefully the blowback on this shitstorm is enough but,

Electronic Arts shares are still up 39 percent year to date through Tuesday in anticipation of future profits stream from micro-transactions.

Well, maybe we do to keep attention on this issue.
 
  • 1Picard
  • 1Like
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 2 users

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,161
32,733
Except that's not what's going to happen. The crates will just cost more

OK that's fine. They'll also have a black mark upon them and be plastered all over advertisements to drive most consumers away.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
9,315
11,902
I think that this is a bit disingenuous here, and I'm the first type of person to be anti-government when it comes to these things.

First off, this has nothing to do with what game companies can and cannot do with the content in the games. The issues are centered around how purchase affect hidden gaming mechanics and the social engineering that occurs underneath the game as a result of these purchases that the player knows nothing about, nor is ever disclosed to the player.

Let's say I have a game where you fight enemies to defeat them to get to the next level. The game is $50. You pay $50 for the game. Now, I also have content in the game that allows you to spend to buy upgrades to make accomplishing tasks easier, such as round extension packs, damage boosters, etc. Unknown to you, and I never ever tell you this or disclose this, I track who pays for additional packages and content, and make the game harder for you, knowing that you will spend money to get over challenges I present to you in the game. I track which parts of the game you spend for and which you don't. I artificially change the game FOR YOU based on your spending habits. So the more you spend, the harder the game is for you, so that you spend more to get further. For example, if you buy that ultra mega extreme $999.99 pack, your enemies will all have an inate bonus to their attack and defense, unknown to you. But to those that bought no packs at all, the enemy will have no bonus to their attack and defense. In the end, you will advance further than the person that doesn't pay - simply because you can "buy" your way to better content - but one day if you decide to stop spending money, the next wall you hit, you'll never pass because I've made the game so difficult for you now that you have no choice but to spend or quit to get past (or if the game is balanced very very well, you would require a ton of luck and skill to get past it where a free player can require just a little luck and little skill -- even though you would have gotten to that enemy well before the free player did).

Read this, it's a really good write up on the issue. Not the same as my example, but yet another issue that explains things well.

When Games Pretend to Be Games They Aren't - Overthinking It



More articles on the topic (And of course, these tricks are not just F2P anymore):

The Top F2P Monetization Tricks
The Ethics of the Candy Crush Pusher

And you think all the people in this thread who are "lol fuck EA!" are supporting government intervention because of the recent shit that just came out about "unknown to the player mechanics to entice them to spend more money" shenanigans and not because they hate the concept of MTX and think game companies are personally out to fuck them over instead of just to make money?

I have no problem if the government stops them from doing shit like that, at least without informing the playerbase of these type of things because I could see that being pretty close to fraudulent type stuff. I think you're delusional if you think that's what most of these whiny "dlc and mtx ruin mah gamez!" people want, or if that's all the government would get their fingers in to.

Plus, I hate this entire idea of gambling and video games (not just for kids) in the first place. Because where does it stop? This time it's, "Oh, you'll get the basic gun." Next time it's, "Oh, we'll give you a shitty gun that we used 100 years ago." Time after? "Let's see if you get a gun."

It just never stops with these shitheads. You give them an inch and they take a mile.

There you go acting like you can't simply choose not to buy a game that doesn't have a playstyle you find attractive again. You know what I hate the idea of? Various genres of movies. I like comedy and action movies. We need the government to step in and regulate the movie industry because where does it stop? Sappy chick flicks? Shitty horror/gore movies? What's next, cheesy low budget sci-fi movies? Film festival artsy fartsy stuff? It just never stops with these shitheads.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
9,315
11,902
We need more dick knob intellectuals telling us how letting these scumbags get away with this shit is cool, because all government is bad or something. I mean, hopefully the blowback on this shitstorm is enough but,



Well, maybe we do to keep attention on this issue.

What exactly are they "getting away with"? Making money by offering a product that people are clearly more than willing to buy since they're fucking raking in cash left and right? Oh, the humanity! Someone stop those assholes from running productive businesses!
 
  • 1Like
  • 1Picard
Reactions: 1 users

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,161
32,733
Nothing is stopping them.

However, stop being a disingenuous cunt. These companies have helped railroad the DMCA through Congress and mold it into a weapon to unilaterally shut down content creators. They've also managed to set policies in almost every retail chain and digitally to limit or remove the capacity to examine the product or return it, even if it does not follow common law warrantee requirements such as fitness of purpose. They've rolled out spyware and forced arbitration clauses in EULAs and constantly try and enforce outrageous contract requirements that can only be read after you can no longer return your product (see point earlier).

These big publishers are trash.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 4 users

Daezuel

Potato del Grande
22,812
48,093
What exactly are they "getting away with"? Making money by offering a product that people are clearly more than willing to buy since they're fucking raking in cash left and right? Oh, the humanity! Someone stop those assholes from running productive businesses!
Productive business resulting in trashing a beloved franchise. You're a fucking retard.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 users

AladainAF

Best Rabbit
<Gold Donor>
12,846
30,787
And you think all the people in this thread who are "lol fuck EA!" are supporting government intervention because of the recent shit that just came out about "unknown to the player mechanics to entice them to spend more money" shenanigans and not because they hate the concept of MTX and think game companies are personally out to fuck them over instead of just to make money?

I'm not sure what the intention of the others in this thread. People can post what they want, for any reason what they want. I'm just telling you specifically what the governments are going after. No one has a problem with people adding shit in games for money when you know what you're buying. In the case of EA, specifically, that's the "other" part of the equation, which is the strong boxes. Those are a separate issue, which I explained in my first post, mainly around gambling.

My issue in the post you quoted was about predatory gaming. Under the basic premise of a free market should function by which is the customer should never be deceived. The companies are knowingly deceiving the customer by using social engineering tactics to see how they spend, and then adjusting the game as such to put you in positions where spending more seems like the "only hope" to beat the game. That's a pretty bullshit thing to do, but so long as the consumer knows this is happening - go for it. The issue is they don't.

I think you're delusional if you think that's what most of these whiny "dlc and mtx ruin mah gamez!" people want, or if that's all the government would get their fingers in to.

My posts on this topic have nothing to do with others postings.

There you go acting like you can't simply choose not to buy a game that doesn't have a playstyle you find attractive again. You know what I hate the idea of? Various genres of movies. I like comedy and action movies. We need the government to step in and regulate the movie industry because where does it stop? Sappy chick flicks? Shitty horror/gore movies? What's next, cheesy low budget sci-fi movies? Film festival artsy fartsy stuff? It just never stops with these shitheads.

You're going to extreme measures here. No one is saying "regulate the games industry". Imagine going to the store and buying a "horror movie" with lots of blood and gore in it for $15, only to stick the movie in and be prompted to pay $10 to unlock the blood and gore DLC. That's perfectly fine with you, right?
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
9,315
11,902
Productive business resulting in trashing a beloved franchise. You're a fucking retard.

So you're admitting that you're just butthurt that someone made a game you don't personally like and that's your only gripe? Thanks for clarifying what i've been saying 99% of the whiners are actually upset about.
 
  • 3Salty
  • 1Picard
Reactions: 3 users

AladainAF

Best Rabbit
<Gold Donor>
12,846
30,787
So you're admitting that you're just butthurt that someone made a game you don't personally like and that's your only gripe? Thanks for clarifying what i've been saying 99% of the whiners are actually upset about.

When you buy a product as a consumer, you expect to get what you're sold right? I mean, you don't expect to get a $50 game that is a shell, where everything you want to do is unlocked behind a DLC paywall, right? And where, finishing the game is "feasible" you can only do so seeing 20% of the content.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
9,315
11,902
You're going to extreme measures here. No one is saying "regulate the games industry". Imagine going to the store and buying a "horror movie" with lots of blood and gore in it for $15, only to stick the movie in and be prompted to pay $10 to unlock the blood and gore DLC. That's perfectly fine with you, right?

That's not really the same as DLC for games. Diablo 3 didn't release claiming to have 4 acts and then pop up surprise $10 dlc at the end of every act before you could get to 2, 3 or 4. Starcraft didn't release claiming to have 3 playable races and then force you to pay surprise fees to actually play them. Shadows of War didn't claim people could control orcs and then force people to buy orc boxes to be able to do it. Are there any examples of games that have done this because if there are I haven't heard of them, although admittedly I haven't gone looking for any.

If there are games that are doing this kind of thing then yes, they should get in trouble whether it's false advertising or fraud or whatever they end up getting charged for. If the company is just choosing to use a business model that allows people to spend money to be stronger than other people then I don't see how they've done anything wrong (barring cases like I already agreed should be no-no's).
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
9,315
11,902
When you buy a product as a consumer, you expect to get what you're sold right? I mean, you don't expect to get a $50 game that is a shell, where everything you want to do is unlocked behind a DLC paywall, right? And where, finishing the game is "feasible" you can only do so seeing 20% of the content.

Did people make shitty games before DLC was ever even a flashing dollar sign tickling the back of some game company execs mind? Yes, they sure did. Will they continue to do it if DLC becomes completely illegal in any form? Yes, they sure will.

Edit: Do you have a problem with League of Legends business model?
 

AladainAF

Best Rabbit
<Gold Donor>
12,846
30,787
Did people make shitty games before DLC was ever even a flashing dollar sign tickling the back of some game company execs mind? Yes, they sure did. Will they continue to do it if DLC becomes completely illegal in any form? Yes, they sure will.

Edit: Do you have a problem with League of Legends business model?

Of course they did. This isn't about games being good or bad though, and really has no bearing on the general conversation. Saying "You can drive a rover on planets!" and give you a terrible, basic, generic rover they have satisfied "you can drive a rover on planets". But if they turn around and give you options to buy 50 different rovers that are better in every conceivable way, to the point where the entire game experience is dramatically improved by spending more money on things, that's a very terrible thing to do.

But, even so, that has nothing to do with what they are trying to "regulate", so nonetheless, I'm not sure where you're going here, and honestly I'm probably getting caught commenting on your things, which also have zero bearing on the initial two things I posted about, so I'll just stop here, and get back on topic.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
9,315
11,902
As I said before, if the only thing they stick to is regulating things like the shady stuff and I guess loot boxes if they can classify them as gambling, although I think the only thing they should do if they can get them classified as gambling is make it 18+ like any other gambling but I don't like labeling things as gambling that don't involve betting money to win money since that's a very slippery slope IMO, then I don't have a problem with that. In that case my only actual response to your post would be that I think you're crazy if you believe that the government getting a foothold in video games won't result in them eventually reaching for more and more and more like they do with literally everything.

My point about games being good or bad was in response to you asking about shells of games which I would classify as bad games which should be taken care of the free market and not government interference, especially since whether something is good or not is completely subjective.

Most of my other comments have been in regards to things like Vaclav claiming he wants the government to step in because evil game companies are stealing from children who have credit cards by offering mtx on games or Palum's general stance of "fuck ea" or daezuel's "fuck them they made a game I didn't like" which all have absolutely nothing to do with what will most likely end up getting regulated either.
 

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
24,422
31,635
I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.

If you believe that I'm sure Palum has ocean front property in his backyard to sell you.

They sell this hype so everyone gets on board before even finding out what they are buying. Reason they do preorders on a digital item. They're not going to run out.
 

Chanur

Shit Posting Professional
<Gold Donor>
26,339
38,009
Fat people can't control themselves when it comes to eating, so like I said before, we need the government to step in and regulate restaurants from charging for every course of a meal. They should all be included at one low price! Think of the fat people!
You know restaurants are regulated right? You work in the fucking food industry and should know this.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
You know restaurants are regulated right? You work in the fucking food industry and should know this.

Yea, but he's one of those mindless libertarians that thinks all regulation is bad, while they're taking advantage of hundreds of things that would turn to shit if regulation wasn't there.

Hell, the most likely result of something like this being regulated is labeling laws just to inform people about heavy MTX products when they're being purchased. Similar to what most of the online stores for digital purchases have already done.

And for the record, Meth-hawk, I'm personally cool with the LoL style. Shadow of War was one that I even tolerated but it was pretty damn close to going over the edge, the difference in grinding versus cash was pretty drastic [and it wasn't a fun grind] to do Act 4 - but it still didn't bother me. (SW: Battlefront 2 does sound bad from little comments I've seen, but I've had zero interest so I've not looked any deeper into it, but I know there's lots of "HOLY MTX!" comments)

And mind you, most of us here come from MMOs and we understand and appreciate trickling content in via a known subscription fee and such - we're not complete cheapasses, but there's a balance to be struck that's starting to tip too far the wrong way. I think just having informed consumers and better parental controls might be enough personally. I think the companies would actually see a decline in sales of such products as information trickled out and the market would respond - it's already started with stuff like Battlefront 2 without, since it looks to be selling like shit, but unfortunately it's a game that would generate a ton of word of mouth - more niche stuff probably won't do as great a job of informing their fans without labeling.
 

goishen

Macho Ma'am
3,548
14,539
The only thing that I fear that EA will do is double down on their marketing strategy and place it before the movie that's coming out.
 

yamikazo

Trakanon Raider
1,361
546
You say it's not good gameplay and not fun. That's true for you. There are plenty of people who do enjoy that kind of thing (and all the other cash shop shenanigans in games). You know what I do with games that I don't find fun? I choose not to buy them. I don't run around screaming that the government needs to step in and force companies to stop making games that I don't like.

I know you're trolling, so this will be my only reply to you in this thread:

No sane person* finds gambling your way to the top in a game where you are spending dollars instead of bypassing a "traditional" player power progression.

*I'm sure there are people that do find gambling dollars for this fun, just like there are people on this planet who find stuffing entire pineapples up their ass to be pleasurable. But if you're looking to open up a fruit market, you don't go all-in on people who stick pineapples up their ass to the tune of passing up all the people who like fruit salad, apples, watermelons, and other things within the ranger of normal people.

Video game gambling, using real world dollars or in-game currencies, is quickly becoming the norm and it's not fun for any sane person - the alternative (i.e., not a gambling-centric power advancement in RPG games) is better for almost every one of the seven billion people on this planet. For the people for whom video game gambling is better gameplay and more fun, I recommend mental health services.
 
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 1 user

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,463
Of course they did. This isn't about games being good or bad though, and really has no bearing on the general conversation. Saying "You can drive a rover on planets!" and give you a terrible, basic, generic rover they have satisfied "you can drive a rover on planets". But if they turn around and give you options to buy 50 different rovers that are better in every conceivable way, to the point where the entire game experience is dramatically improved by spending more money on things, that's a very terrible thing to do.

But, even so, that has nothing to do with what they are trying to "regulate", so nonetheless, I'm not sure where you're going here, and honestly I'm probably getting caught commenting on your things, which also have zero bearing on the initial two things I posted about, so I'll just stop here, and get back on topic.

Porsche is actually thinking of paid DLC for their cars, e.g. have the car drive a race track autonomously how Mark Webber would drive it.