Gov't Regulation for Games Discussion- DLC related

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Utnayan

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AladainAF

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And i'm fine with that. CS:GO boxes probably being the type of thing you are talking about? I'm assuming Shadow of War mtx stuff wasn't tradeable, along with 99.9% of the other dlc stuff that people like utnayan/hekotat/palum/vaclav want the government to actually do something about. Has anyone on these boards even badmouthed shit like the CS:GO boxes/gambling or is it all just butthurt about EA and their bros ruining their hobby/beloved franchies/etc.? I've seen a whole lot of the 2nd and not much of the first.

If that is not tradeable then I don't have a problem with it on my original point around gambling.

Now, in terms of predatory gaming, if those things are required to the point where the game is artificially designed around them being obtained (as Utnayan Utnayan eloquently put it) then that could be a problem on the predatory gaming thing.

I'm not sure where you see the disconnect here. I think we want the same thing, but you must recognize predatory gaming exists, and is a problem. It's got nothing to do with enjoyment of the game. It has to do with being sold something without being told what you're buying. Think No Mans Sky on a smaller, yet just as unethical scale.
 

Utnayan

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And i'm fine with that. CS:GO boxes probably being the type of thing you are talking about? I'm assuming Shadow of War mtx stuff wasn't tradeable, along with 99.9% of the other dlc stuff that people like utnayan/hekotat/palum/vaclav want the government to actually do something about. Has anyone on these boards even badmouthed shit like the CS:GO boxes/gambling or is it all just butthurt about EA and their bros ruining their hobby/beloved franchies/etc.? I've seen a whole lot of the 2nd and not much of the first.

1) I do not want government regulation because the only reason the government gets involved is to feign moral/ethical eptitude for the pure sake of taxing it more so they can have more income. Government doesn't give two shits about the actual people until voting time. Period.

2) I badmouthed Rocket League's MTX system - because I am tired of spending $10 on keys, and then get the same damn decal 5 times within 8 spins
 

zombiewizardhawk

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I'm not familiar with LoL but Zombie asked me about it earlier, and if this is the case (like PoE) it's def not gambling.

Gambling must involve an unknown, unpredictable occurrence. A chance play. A pull of a slot in such a way the player cannot influence the outcome. If the player can influence the outcome, it becomes more technical - some states for example require the skill simply be 51% and chance 49% (dominant factor / material element) but others require skill completely overcome the chance and that chance play no part whatsoever in the outcome ("Any chance" states... Florida, Louisiana, etc)

Do you want me to log in to LoL and PoE and screenshot the options to purchase randomized chests?
 

zombiewizardhawk

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I'm not sure where you see the disconnect here. I think we want the same thing, but you must recognize predatory gaming exists, and is a problem. It's got nothing to do with enjoyment of the game. It has to do with being sold something without being told what you're buying. Think No Mans Sky on a smaller, yet just as unethical scale.

Do you think Shadow of War or this new Star Wars game are similar, equally unethical or even somewhat close scams to No Mans Sky?

1) I do not want government regulation

Good, sounds like we're on the same side then.
 
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Palum

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but F2P MTX generally do not let you trade the items obtained through random means to other people. That's not really gambling (sorta! but not really and not likely to be enforced). But if there's a FTP where you can trade the items you get through direct purchases of strong boxes where the item you get is unpredictable and a complete unknown and trade it to others for anything of value, it is most certainly gambling.

Whether or not it will be enforced or not is questionable, but it looks like its starting to be, and quite frankly it should be.

I would say the opposite. It SHOULD be gambling and I think the EULAs and lack of regulations which provide a marketplace that automatically revokes the long held common law implied warranty of title.

These game companies are saying "here, buy our digital goods but since they're digital we can unilaterally ignore the law".

If game companies are going to exit the realm of software "licenses" for as-is offerings and sell DIGITAL MERCHANDISE, then they can abide by common law theories coming from the fucking Magna Carta and earlier.

These companies have stripped consumers of rights they should have over and over. Tech companies in general have been simply ignoring laws (see Uber vs taxi laws) and saying "well technically we call ourselves something else" to undercut existing industry by simply unilaterally ignoring regulation. They've been robbing consumers and states blindly and it's about time these people are brought to heel.

You want to sell digital products? Fine. I expect warranty of title, warranty of fitness of purpose, warranty of merchantability.

I should be able to trade and resell any digital goods and transfer title. And their value will therefore then reflect with existing gambling laws.
 
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AladainAF

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Do you want me to log in to LoL and PoE and screenshot the options to purchase randomized chests?

No need. If they have it, and the items are tradeable and completely unpredictable, then it could be a gambling issue legally. This has always been the case. The value, legally, doesn't matter. But as a matter of enforcement, it does.
 

mkopec

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Pretty fucking cut and dry here pal.

https://help.ea.com/en-us/help/star...star-wars-battlefront-ii-star-cards-upgrades/

And we all know where the artificial sinks are (Credits and Crates).

Anyone with half a pulse knows this. So, enjoy the troll :)

You still dont fucking know waht youre talking about. Anyone that played this game for more than 10 hours knows that star cards mean jack and shit bro. .5 meter more blast radius on your grenade? 3 second less on CD for your shields in a game with TTK of less than a second? Yeah thats gonna make you rape the competition. Go read some more reddit blogs, lul. Now show me where you can dismantle these cards and get crafting parts.

Besides all this shit is moot point anyway since you cant by shit anymore in the game.
 

Utnayan

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Good, sounds like we're on the same side then.

Quote the whole post.

1) I do not want government regulation because the only reason the government gets involved is to feign moral/ethical eptitude for the pure sake of taxing it more so they can have more income. Government doesn't give two shits about the actual people until voting time. Period.

If those circumstances were different, I may consider it. But the government doesn't give a crap about ethics or morality. Ethics and Morality are a cash cow, so the more they can tax the better. That won't change more than likely, so neither will my stance on government involvement.

Should the industry take a stand? They better after this debacle. Or they can kiss their jobs goodbye. And we will find something else to do.
 

zombiewizardhawk

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I'm assuming that you can't trade mtx in PoE but i've never tried (I just buy stash tabs). I'm also assuming you can't trade 99.9% of the mtx from rng boxes in other games that people who aren't you complain about. I don't have a problem with mtx becoming untradeable in any game, whether they're rng based or not. I do have a problem with people who want the government to make the big meanie ceo's start pumping out games that they find acceptable at reasonable price points, or people who claim that rng boxes in games are robbing children of their credit card money.
 

AladainAF

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I would say the opposite. It SHOULD be gambling and I think the EULAs and lack of regulations which provide a marketplace that automatically revokes the long held common law implied warranty of title.

I disagree. It's not gambling. You are not putting something at risk to gain from it in any meaningful way, other than enhancing the gameplay for you. If it was tradeable, then you could gain from it by selling it to another.

These game companies are saying "here, buy our digital goods but since they're digital we can unilaterally ignore the law".

They aren't ignoring the law. As a player you have every right to decide to buy it or not buy it. You know exactly what you're buying in most of these cases (i.e. coins from slots). Even games like I play (Idle Heroes) has completely random hero pulls. But I know that. Nonetheless, the heroes are not tradeable. If I pull a great hero, it enhances me but I cannot gain in any monetary capacity from it. (TECHNICALLY I could sell my account but that's another whole issue).

If game companies are going to exit the realm of software "licenses" for as-is offerings and sell DIGITAL MERCHANDISE, then they can abide by common law theories coming from the fucking Magna Carta and earlier.

These companies have stripped consumers of rights they should have over and over. Tech companies in general have been simply ignoring laws (see Uber vs taxi laws) and saying "well technically we call ourselves something else" to undercut existing industry by simply unilaterally ignoring regulation. They've been robbing consumers and states blindly and it's about time these people are brought to heel.

You want to sell digital products? Fine. I expect warranty of title, warranty of fitness of purpose, warranty of merchantability.

I agree with you on the Uber bit, but I disagree with you on digital products. At the end of the day, the digital products do not belong to you. You have no right to transfer them, etc. You do not get to define those terms, the creator does. You buy the right to use them, you do not buy ownership of them. Just like movies. You buy the right to use them, but you do not buy ownership of them. Try buying a blu ray, make a bunch of copies of it, and then give them away to anyone that asks. See how that works for you. You don't own it.
 

zombiewizardhawk

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Quote the whole post.



If those circumstances were different, I may consider it. But the government doesn't give a crap about ethics or morality. Ethics and Morality are a cash cow, so the more they can tax the better. That won't change more than likely, so neither will my stance on government involvement.

Should the industry take a stand? They better after this debacle. Or they can kiss their jobs goodbye. And we will find something else to do.

Why? The part of the post that matters is the part that I quoted. That's the same thing as "But that wasn't real socialism! It's perfect if nobody fucks it up!"
 
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Utnayan

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Now show me where you can dismantle these cards and get crafting parts.

That was an old design doc. Did they take that out because it would have killed people buying loot crates and would have been too hard to manage?

You used to be able to dismantle Star Cards for Scrap. Looks like they changed that before Alpha hit. So you can only earn scrap.

Don't tell me you are being serious right now in everything else posted about huge multiplayer advantages with Star Cards and you thinking that isn't existent.
 

Palum

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I disagree. It's not gambling. You are not putting something at risk to gain from it in any meaningful way, other than enhancing the gameplay for you. If it was tradeable, then you could gain from it by selling it to another.



They aren't ignoring the law. As a player you have every right to decide to buy it or not buy it. You know exactly what you're buying in most of these cases (i.e. coins from slots). Even games like I play (Idle Heroes) has completely random hero pulls. But I know that. Nonetheless, the heroes are not tradeable. If I pull a great hero, it enhances me but I cannot gain in any monetary capacity from it. (TECHNICALLY I could sell my account but that's another whole issue).



I agree with you on the Uber bit, but I disagree with you on digital products. At the end of the day, the digital products do not belong to you. You have no right to transfer them, etc. You do not get to define those terms, the creator does.

Yes,I fundamentally disagree with the nature of digital products. I believe as we continue to, for lack of a better term "digitize" consumer products and services, they need to be held to the same standards as physical goods.
 

Skanda

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Am I the only one starting to hope for government regulation just to watch the salt flow from the Meth-fiend?
 
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mkopec

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You cannot dismantle star cards and any duplicate you get out of a crate gives you 250 credits. Star cards and getting them ot of loot boxes ceases to matter like 30 hours into the game anyway, its a non issue. Besides it would be stupid to dismantle any card in this game since it decreases your star card level for that class and crafting higher level cards have star card level requirements anyway. Now tell me again how that epic grenade card that has .5 more meter blast radius is so OP.

the real OP shit in this game is the guns. thats what turns you from pleb to god tier. And that takes playing the game, specifically getting kills.
 

Utnayan

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You are being obtuse on purpose because let me tell you what happens when you combine these epic star cards for just ONE assault player.

1) 40% heat reduction
2) 40% health regenerated on elimination of another player
3) 100% health regeneration on a melee kill
4) 28% recharge - All your abilities have 28% faster recharge times.

And those are just FOUR of the damn things at epic level.

You kidding me!? No effect!???
 

mkopec

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And none of the above cards are ever used by anyone I ever saw in game, lul. Try again bro.

99% heavy will have some improved sentry, shield and nade

99% of assault will have nade, improved vanguard, and scan dart which ups your rate of getting BP

99% of officer will have command, turret or squad shield and some type of officer nade.

99% of specialist will have personal shield, infiltration, and nade or pistol.
 
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