Hearthstone
- Thread starter Azrayne
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Mechwarper really needs to be changed to only effect the first mech played per turn, the card is extremely over powered in its current state allowing for double mechwarper starts is bullshit and incredibly unfun. Or you know they could make it a 5 mana 3/2 and leave it as is.
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Most MW starts don't bother me anymore - I just run some form of early sweeping in basically every deck now and/or a bit of pinpoint that hits 3 toughness. Sweeping is better though.
At least you can be proactive or reactive to it unlike Undertaker that was entirely proactive without an exorbitant cost. Sweeping a MW + MW + 2-3 friends spam after taking even 1-2 hits from it is such a swing of tempo because you just spent 1 (or 2 in the case of Auchenai/WoH) to remove 4-5 of their cards that if your build is at all viable it should be able to take advantage of before they build back up unless they've got a solid backup plan, which most don't.
Undertaker nerfed so now ya'll complaining about Mechwarper? This is the reasons all MMOs are shit today.
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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There's cheaper sweep options than that - Sheep + suicide. Pyromancer + Coin + something. Pinpoint 3 pt damage options to prevent it snowballing. Explosive Trap. Lightning Storm. Remember it's just 2 damage you need for the mostpart if you've got any other board presence.
Evernothing
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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How about I slap your shit?
Anyway like I said I'm not convinced that the card needs nerfing. Aggro decks will always have those busted openings where they get such a huge tempo advantage it's basically impossible to recover, Mechwarper just ups the ante a bit when you go all in. Answering a 2 drop that never gets bigger than 3 health is a lot easier than answering a 1 drop that gets bigger every time your opponent drops another creature.
Sir Funk
Molten Core Raider
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Mechwarper would be fine if it only affected the first mech summoned per turn. Truthfully, it's fine the way it is now, but it's just too strong when combined with Mage's follow-ups/finishers. I don't think it's too strong in Mech Shaman or Mech Rogue or anywhere else.
Unfortunately, I think you have to adjust Mechwarper in some way, given the current available cardset. Making it a 2/2 or even 1/2 and leaving it's power as is would probably work too. I would actually prefer Mechwarper's ability be a Battlecry and lower the cost of the next mech you play that turn by 2 or 3. It would at least provide more interesting choices than "drop all of your mechwarpers and shit out as many mechs as you can".
Unfortunately, I think you have to adjust Mechwarper in some way, given the current available cardset. Making it a 2/2 or even 1/2 and leaving it's power as is would probably work too. I would actually prefer Mechwarper's ability be a Battlecry and lower the cost of the next mech you play that turn by 2 or 3. It would at least provide more interesting choices than "drop all of your mechwarpers and shit out as many mechs as you can".
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Yep - if it needs anything it would be a SLIGHT adjustment (like you said with limiting it like Summoning Portal - conveniently which Mechwarper talks about opening a portal too, mind you) - that might not be needed, but that's the most it would need because of the availability of sweepers + pinpoint.
You only really NEED a sweeper in the rare 8 card spam cases - especially since none of them are Warsong Commander based where they're charging thusfar. And the 8 card spam requires double mechwarper which is a rare hand to have that early anyhow - turn 3 (or 2+coin) is the earliest it can "go off" (and only mostly - spider tank and other strong followups aren't turn 3 friendly while getting the MW's together unless done over 2 turns, but if done over two turns, pinpointing the first for 3 damage hampers it - there's a risk to doing that, and a reward if for them if you can't counter it) - out of 30 cards you'd have 6 cards drawn at that point, 20% odds of occurring at the best.
If you can exploit people's penchant for using MW, you can actually reap more benefit from it being plentiful until people adapt to getting back away from it.
You only really NEED a sweeper in the rare 8 card spam cases - especially since none of them are Warsong Commander based where they're charging thusfar. And the 8 card spam requires double mechwarper which is a rare hand to have that early anyhow - turn 3 (or 2+coin) is the earliest it can "go off" (and only mostly - spider tank and other strong followups aren't turn 3 friendly while getting the MW's together unless done over 2 turns, but if done over two turns, pinpointing the first for 3 damage hampers it - there's a risk to doing that, and a reward if for them if you can't counter it) - out of 30 cards you'd have 6 cards drawn at that point, 20% odds of occurring at the best.
If you can exploit people's penchant for using MW, you can actually reap more benefit from it being plentiful until people adapt to getting back away from it.
Morrow
Trakanon Raider
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Yeah it makes no sense. Like I said before, how is Pint Sized Summoner a rare, has 1 less health, and yet only affects the first minion each turn, while Mechwarper is cumulative, is a common, has the mech creature type which is a benefit, and has 1 extra health, which is huge? Cos it only affects mechs? And? Anyone running it is going to have mechs in hand every turn. Blizzard is silly.
Famm
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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They should buff Summoner to have the same stats and text except for gnomes instead of mechs!
Mures
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I was complaining about mechwarper before ut, I'm one of the "retards" that didn't think ut needed nerfed.
How can you be proactive or reactive to mechwarper when it gets its value the turn its played? UT you at least had the option to remove it or silence it, mechwarper silencing it does nothing and unless you have turn 2 removal (which worked on ut as well) removing it later isn't going to do a damn thing.
Now lets look at your early game sweepers. Sheep + suicide? That requires them not killing the sheep and not having annoy-o-tron and you're killing all of one mechwarper and add to the top that off, while sheep is an amazing card he doesn't fit into a lot of decks since he can equally screw you and would be a dead draw late game in many decks. Pyro + coin + a low cost spell requires you going 2nd and getting a two card combo in your first 6-7 cards, the pyro is going to kill himself unless you're a priest and have pw shield in which case dealing 2 damage to all minions does dick all against mech mage. Explosive trap, again 2 points of aoe damage does nothing against mech mage. Auchenai/CoH requires a 2 card combo in the first 7-8 cards AND if one of their mechs was annoy-o you would also have to had cultist in those first 7-8 cards or else the mage is at best going to kill your auchenai with their hero power or more than likely just blastmage with the annoy-o still on the board. Best case scenario you get a 3 card combo in your first 8 cards and you're still trading 2 for ~3 1/2. Lightning storm you're not going to have a spell power totem so you have to hope to roll high just at a chance to kill the mechwarpers....you won't kill the annoy-o's or spider tanks. Consecrate again, 2 damage does nothing against mech mage and "just 2 damage if you've got any other board presence" well great you mean I get to 2 for 1 myself? Thats really taking it to them.
The only thing you said that is true is 3 direct damage(something that always has been and always will be run) will kill a mech warper and you have to have it in your first 5-6 cards because if you draw it just one turn later its already too late. Compared to ut, which at least the early game aoes killed the other crap they played and you had the option of silencing it on top of removing it. The dream mechwarper hand your only option to counter is 1 or 2 mana 3 damage removal.
How can you be proactive or reactive to mechwarper when it gets its value the turn its played? UT you at least had the option to remove it or silence it, mechwarper silencing it does nothing and unless you have turn 2 removal (which worked on ut as well) removing it later isn't going to do a damn thing.
Now lets look at your early game sweepers. Sheep + suicide? That requires them not killing the sheep and not having annoy-o-tron and you're killing all of one mechwarper and add to the top that off, while sheep is an amazing card he doesn't fit into a lot of decks since he can equally screw you and would be a dead draw late game in many decks. Pyro + coin + a low cost spell requires you going 2nd and getting a two card combo in your first 6-7 cards, the pyro is going to kill himself unless you're a priest and have pw shield in which case dealing 2 damage to all minions does dick all against mech mage. Explosive trap, again 2 points of aoe damage does nothing against mech mage. Auchenai/CoH requires a 2 card combo in the first 7-8 cards AND if one of their mechs was annoy-o you would also have to had cultist in those first 7-8 cards or else the mage is at best going to kill your auchenai with their hero power or more than likely just blastmage with the annoy-o still on the board. Best case scenario you get a 3 card combo in your first 8 cards and you're still trading 2 for ~3 1/2. Lightning storm you're not going to have a spell power totem so you have to hope to roll high just at a chance to kill the mechwarpers....you won't kill the annoy-o's or spider tanks. Consecrate again, 2 damage does nothing against mech mage and "just 2 damage if you've got any other board presence" well great you mean I get to 2 for 1 myself? Thats really taking it to them.
The only thing you said that is true is 3 direct damage(something that always has been and always will be run) will kill a mech warper and you have to have it in your first 5-6 cards because if you draw it just one turn later its already too late. Compared to ut, which at least the early game aoes killed the other crap they played and you had the option of silencing it on top of removing it. The dream mechwarper hand your only option to counter is 1 or 2 mana 3 damage removal.
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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mures: Did you see the part where I mentioned that the light AEs work well if you've got some sort of early support with it?
It's really sounding to me like you've got a deck (or play style) that you want to be rigid about instead of adapting around MW. MW definitely influences the format, but it's not unstoppable - and in the common case of only one isn't really of much danger - 20% chance of facing two you want a little backup of some sort (extra nukes/taunt/AEs/critters) and accept that you're going to take some amount of a hit.
It's really sounding to me like you've got a deck (or play style) that you want to be rigid about instead of adapting around MW. MW definitely influences the format, but it's not unstoppable - and in the common case of only one isn't really of much danger - 20% chance of facing two you want a little backup of some sort (extra nukes/taunt/AEs/critters) and accept that you're going to take some amount of a hit.
Mures
Blackwing Lair Raider
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As far as if you have to trade early minions + removal you are going to be so far behind. As far as mw influencing the game and making adjustment to it, I know bro, I said the exact same thing about ut. I just don't understand how ppl can say undertaker was worse than mechwarper when there are literally dozens more answers to ut than there are mechwarper and mechwarper often gets its value the turn it is played, thus there is no counter play.