Heroes of the Storm

Many people complain about the prices and I'm not sure if Blizzard is feeling them out or if is what they are going to be. I will say for a game like this it is somewhat rare to see skins in the game. For an average game I'd say maybe 2-3 heroes per 10 have a skin. I don't know how LoL is with their skin usage.

I have like $600 in skins in LoL

Yea some of the pricing sucks and I'm with Draegan, I would be more willing to buy shit if it wasn't so much. That said I've still spent maybe $15-$18 total on the game so far, also have my 10 heroes now.

I had horrible timing last night I guess with you guys, I'll pop in mumble next time. I did take the time to get some more heroes up to 4 and finally set up all my keybinds on my pad so not a total loss.

Also thread I gave ETC a few games last night. He is much better than I thought he was and probably around the same as Muradin -- obviously each hero has different upside/downside -- but still worse than Arthas/Tyreal/Stitches.

I don't think we lost a game with Arthas on our team, I also don't think we won a game with Arthas on the enemy team.

Also on the TeamLiquid thread for this game they're 100% convinced Thrall is the most OP hero to ever walk the Earth. Personally I think the people complaining must just be trash-tier players (the two I've played with who complain the most ARE trash tier) because he is the most easily countered hero in the game and if you don't counter him sure he can wreck your entire team. But IMO he's a T2 hero at best. A situational pick based upon team comp. A #5 pick to punish another team which is light on CC.

I think the only problem with Thrall is he is able to solo every merc camp including the boss and remain at full health with the same spec that he does the most damage. Obviously not until about lvl 13 he can do this, but thats half of every game he can solo every camp. Its something no one else can do and puts mercing specialists in a weird spot.

Whenever I play draft I always pick Thrall on maps with bosses as long as the team comp allows it at the time. Could care less about the enemy team when we can get a free boss after 10 mins. Which obviously frees up 4 other people to get other objectives.

If the other team is letting Thrall free jungle that is on the other team. Or if Thrall is not engaging lanes then there should be implications on those lanes. A simple Clairvoyance should shut down solo junglers pretty heavily.

There's a delay on his sundering, but if you allow it to hit your entire team it's pretty punishing. I think you just have to get used to countering it. Then again if the team positions well he can stay out of sight and cast it and it's pretty hard to avoid.

Dell brings up good points as well. Are there any other assassins/specialists that can put out the same amt of dmg and solo mercs with similar ease?

Once Arthas gets rune tap he can solo mercs fairly easily. If you upgrade E at 13 you can solo them even easier. Taking double frostmourne at 16 makes you a champ. Full auto attack Valla can solo mercs pretty easily and walk away full HP as well.

Personally I find mercs vastly overrated. They're nice to take if you can take them quickly and without impacting the lanes on your team but since for the most part SOMEONE on the team will have a good AOE to deal with them (W valla, Melting Point Tychus -edit- Clarification: MP doesn't damage the mercs but will melt the minion wave buildup they cause, Nazeebo in general) they're not something I specifically go out of my way to get. Only one like that is boss.

Ryoz_sl said:

Dell brings up good points as well. Are there any other assassins/specialists that can put out the same amt of dmg and solo mercs with similar ease?

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Gazlowe probably. Especially at 20 with Mechanolord (50% more auto attack dmg to heroes)

Can solo bruisers at level 6 and seige at level 4.

Gazlowe's poop tier compared to Thrall though.

That is just part of the problem though. Arthas and Valla couldn't solo a boss as easily(possibly not at all, I've never seen it anyways) and they would most likely have to spec for it or make sub-optimal talent choices. Thrall doesn't need to do any of that. Thrall can go his best damage spec, kill a boss and come out with full health, all abilities off CD, and half mana. Wat?

Sure in a perfect world you always know where the enemy Thrall is after lvl 13. I really don't think he is broken for the most part. Maybe the heal needs to not trigger on mercs or something and he would be fine in my opinion.

Thrall requires babysitting on both sides of the coin. If he doesn't receive defensive cooldowns from his support he just immediately explodes. If he isn't the target of priority by the other team then other team explodes. For the most part he lacks good lane presence because he doesn't have any defensive options outside of his passive so you can generally bully him out of lane fairly easily unless he spams his wolf/lightning on minions but that will OOM him fairly quick. I see mercs as compensation for that to give him some form of lane ability. I think Thrall has this perception of since he is so good at 1v1 and people try to 1v1 him and die a horrible death as he gains HP that he is in this imbalanced spot. But you just need to not 1v1 him. Like if you try to 1v1 a Banshees/Searing/Berserk Raynor. Things aren't going to go well for you. I think that Raynor build could probably even 1v1 a Thrall. Or maybe the problem is he snowballs so hard that if the team gets an early lead he suddenly becomes somewhat tanky due to the level discrepancy and you can't claw your way back up because Thrall walks in and immediately kills 2 of your heroes. Dunno I have personally never had problems with him and when I play as him I don't feel like I'm too imba. He does benefit from a good Uther who is ready to slam heals into him and Cleanse off CC.

If they are looking to tone him down they should probably make it so his 16 talent doesn't trigger so much passive

Illidan is really good at clearing camps (can start at level 4) but not sure on the boss (probably not without perma meta or something).

::EDIT:: Are there any good youtubers to follow for this? I have MFPallytime but would like some more videos to check out at work.

There is a really large thread on the beta forums about how the game is "simple". While I agree, and it's not a bad thing, I wrote this in response:

I've been playing this game for a week now and here are my thoughts on the subject.

There are a lot of terrible arguments on both sides. People are talking past each other because there is no context for personal experience and skill level. A lower level LOL player will copy a build path without knowing why while a higher level LOL player will adapt a build path based on what is happening in the game and what champs he is fighting against. Some people like Schwert here are simply shrugging off that adaptation of higher level of play as "skillfull" and moving on.

That is a level of depth in the game. Hopefully balanced talents will supplant this.

This argument of last hitting is silly. Honestly you really don't need last hitting in a game to add depth. What people are missing is that last hitting represents a specific phase of the game that include 1v1 duels or small group skirmishes. To me this is incredibly fun. I really enjoy watching and participating the skill required to beat the person on the other side of the creep line from you. Trading damage, denying creeps, zoning out xp and all the other skillful and strategic gameplay elements that go into the laning phase.

Unfortunately this all gets boiled down to "lol last hitting is stupid". You can have all of these interesting interactions without last hitting. HOTS is missing out on a lot of these interesting interactions,

This is where the "this game is simple" is coming from. Currently this game is all about objective control, which is fine. However, the only macro strat is to get together and team fight it out. Of course there are micro strats involved, like timing the grouping up, keeping players together etc. Micro strats can be made about any activity if you want to break it down to.

But you have to look at the macro meta as a whole. They only viable strategy that I've witnessed whether it's watching "pros" play on streams or watching games I'm playing; is to "deathball" it up. It should be pretty obvious since the community as a whole has actually labeled this phenomenon.

The game, in my opinion, is fun at it's core. I really enjoy an alternative to 50 minute LOL games. I think the heroes are fun to play and the talent system is fine as a replacement to items however the strategic diversity to this game is very low.

What Blizzard really needs to do for this game to not only succeed but to really rise up the "esports" aspect of things is to try to create diversity in engagements. Watching 5v5 brawls all the time gets dull after a while. The game lacks any sort of progression. It's just GO 5 MAN FIGHTS FOR 20 MINUTES AAAAAAH!

What Blizzard needs to do is attempt to promote more 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 engagements across the map. There needs to be several fights constantly going on. Which may be hard to do with smaller map sizes. You should slowly build up into 5 man engagements.

The only tentative solution I've thought of would be to change the way experience is given to the team. I think that amount of players soaking in the experience for the team should determine how much the team gets. The more people in the area the less you get. This would promote players to spread out. It will also allow for teams to diversify engagements.

If the other team is deathballing you. You could 4v5 them and turtle while you send a player to split push or farm lanes. That solo player will be gaining more experience for the team and should actually cause the other team to pause and send someone to stop them because they might actually lose in the leveling curve.

That's just my opinion, but I think that would go a long way to create different strategies within the game and how each team handles different objectives. Do you send 4 or 5? 2 or 3? Which lane to you leave open? Is having a dedicated Merc killer giving your team a lot of additional experience?

Experience and levels in this game is the gold of LOL or DOTA. The game should not only be about winning team fights and objectives but the arms race to level 20. There should be a clear objective to level faster than the other team while also doing everything else you're currently doing. Currently the only way you get outleveled is when you really stomp on the other team. Otherwise, you're generally equal in levels for the most part.

Tenks_sl said:

Once Arthas gets rune tap he can solo mercs fairly easily. If you upgrade E at 13 you can solo them even easier. Taking double frostmourne at 16 makes you a champ. Full auto attack Valla can solo mercs pretty easily and walk away full HP as well.

Personally I find mercs vastly overrated. They're nice to take if you can take them quickly and without impacting the lanes on your team but since for the most part SOMEONE on the team will have a good AOE to deal with them (W valla, Melting Point Tychus -edit- Clarification: MP doesn't damage the mercs but will melt the minion wave buildup they cause, Nazeebo in general) they're not something I specifically go out of my way to get. Only one like that is boss.

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I think this is an issue with the game. Mercs should mean something. Whether is bonus experience or more pushing power.

Like I said in my wall of text, the game should be about getting to level 20 the fastest. That should be your primary goal in each game. You should be able to outlevel your opponent by strategically taking lanes/objectives/merc camps.

You get XP for towers/keeps/forts so taking lanes does give you some experience. You can argue if it is enough or not but mercs do give some XP benefit by their natural push.

Also in response to the last hitting aspect. Personally I feel the lane phase of this game is heavily unexplored. Even at the top level of the game. For the most part people are so eager to team fight and engage the enemy I'm not sure if that is even the optimal response. I think there is a ton to be looked at in terms of zoning out the enemy from an entire lane and denying experience with that route. But usually people are very eager to push their lane using their AOE abilities to consume tower damage that it is impossible to deny this XP. But if you have a 3/1/1 lineup and you threaten with your 2 gankers to bully that lane then you DO NOT attack their creeps rather you let the creeps duke it out in the middle of the lane suddenly the enemy cannot gain XP. Then that brings up interesting rotations and responses from the other team. But if you kill all their creeps to absorb tower damage you are basically trading XP for tower ammo and damage. Is that good? Dunno. But in the early game a lane of XP represents an enormous XP gain. But right now people are still in the traditional MOBA mindset where if you're not ganking out of the jungle you're losing. And that simply is not the case in Heroes.

Tenks_sl said:

You get XP for towers/keeps/forts so taking lanes does give you some experience. You can argue if it is enough or not but mercs do give some XP benefit by their natural push.

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I'm aware of this. The argument, like you said, is in the amount of experience you get. To me it seems trivial or not enough to really make a difference.