Heroes of the Storm
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Sutekh
Blackwing Lair Raider
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ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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Mobas are pretty crushingly brutal to get started in, especially for people who are new to the genre as a whole. Pretty sure that's the issue Blizzard is looking to fix with this, and it'll probably work to some extent, especially with team xp and no gold, but whether that leaves enough of a game left to be engaging over the long haul, who knows.
j00t
Silver Baronet of the Realm
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which is, of course, the million dollar question.
though, blizzard's gameplay has rarely ever been "not really all that fun." Say what you want about the direction that WoW has gone, the gameplay is fun. it's obviously a very different game than when it was launched. it caters much more to casual players and tends to alienate the hardcore and the e-sporters... but like i said earlier... the hardcore and the e-sporters still have LoL and Dota. no reason to infringe on that arena, why would they want to?
though, blizzard's gameplay has rarely ever been "not really all that fun." Say what you want about the direction that WoW has gone, the gameplay is fun. it's obviously a very different game than when it was launched. it caters much more to casual players and tends to alienate the hardcore and the e-sporters... but like i said earlier... the hardcore and the e-sporters still have LoL and Dota. no reason to infringe on that arena, why would they want to?
Sutekh
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Well yeah, mistakes are supposed to be punishing.
If you're not able to play a game and still have fun when you lose, you probably should never play any PVP based game, ever. Because more than likely half the time you will be losing.
They'd want to 'infringe' on that for the same reason they made this game. $$$$$
j00t
Silver Baronet of the Realm
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right, but as far as business goes, companies want to go where there isn't competition. otherwise you're asking yourself the same question everyone asks here. "why would i play this new game that's the same as these other 2 games?"
and you're right... intrinsicly, i don't tend to enjoy PVP. there are plenty of times when i play it across various platforms and enjoy it. when i was in college, my and my roommates would go to the University of Minnesota and hustle people at Goldeneye. clearly, not for huge bank, but enough to go get some wings at the bar down the street.
my issue isn't PVP. my issue is that with Dota, there's no entry level tier. you just get thrown in with people who are playing at competition level sometimes. you literally get thrown in with the sharks and you're still trying to figure out how to swim. picking the wrong skill at the wrong level, or buying the wrong item can cripple you. getting killed once or twice can put you in a position where you will spend the rest of the game fighting a very steep, uphill battle.
when you are highly skilled and you are playing with highly skilled players, you need this. you need to have mistakes have dire consequences. when i'm trying to figure out what the icon for the right piece of armor looks like at the secret shop and i get killed faster than i can respond? yeah, clearly i need to get better... what i don't need is my money to be taken away and my enemies to get stronger resulting in the gap between he and i to be spread even further. i am ALREADY at a disadvantage turning on the game simply for being new. there's no "these games are for newbie idiots" league.
and you're right... intrinsicly, i don't tend to enjoy PVP. there are plenty of times when i play it across various platforms and enjoy it. when i was in college, my and my roommates would go to the University of Minnesota and hustle people at Goldeneye. clearly, not for huge bank, but enough to go get some wings at the bar down the street.
my issue isn't PVP. my issue is that with Dota, there's no entry level tier. you just get thrown in with people who are playing at competition level sometimes. you literally get thrown in with the sharks and you're still trying to figure out how to swim. picking the wrong skill at the wrong level, or buying the wrong item can cripple you. getting killed once or twice can put you in a position where you will spend the rest of the game fighting a very steep, uphill battle.
when you are highly skilled and you are playing with highly skilled players, you need this. you need to have mistakes have dire consequences. when i'm trying to figure out what the icon for the right piece of armor looks like at the secret shop and i get killed faster than i can respond? yeah, clearly i need to get better... what i don't need is my money to be taken away and my enemies to get stronger resulting in the gap between he and i to be spread even further. i am ALREADY at a disadvantage turning on the game simply for being new. there's no "these games are for newbie idiots" league.
Oblio
Utah
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My bad, talking about 3 different games had me confused.
And in the spirit of talking about other games, when are they gonna make a Star Wars MOBA? How fucking awesome would that be?
j00t
Silver Baronet of the Realm
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careful... i'm sure there were a lot of people that thought a DC moba would be cool too.
Oblio
Utah
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Delly
Trakanon Raider
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Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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What you are describing isn't necessarily a game design issue, but matchmaking problem. Basically if you put together 10 people who never played any game like this before, they would have shitloads of fun regardless of it being Dota/LoL. Both games have been trying to put you through some kind of tutorial, so you at least know the basics, but people who have played 10+ games already have a huge advantage anyway. I think Dota 2 has the better approach where they reward you the same point regardless of win or loss, so you don't feel the pain so much and they try to nuge you towards actually playing the game instead of the crazy 20 minute surrender vote in LoL.
j00t
Silver Baronet of the Realm
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yeah, it's very much a matchmaking issue... i've played a couple games where i had a BLAST, regardless of a win or a loss specifically because i played with people who were all at the same relative skill level. it's just so hard for a computer to gauge skill level. you won 5 games, so you are "pretty good." so we'll put you with other people who are "pretty good" so you can have a better challenge. except those guys that are "pretty good" roflstomp you because you aren't actually "pretty good" you are just better than "one guy took a phone call for 10 minutes, another guy was tripping on shrooms, 2 poeple were practicing hero composition and one guy has nubs for fingers."
not to over-exaggerate the point, but that's the case. i imagine matchmaking at higher levels is a lot more solid because there's a larger pool of data (1000 wins and 1000 losses vs 10 wins and 10 losses). same percentage, but they don't really say the same thing.
Dota2 is like the WNBA... sure their fundamentals are better but league is a lot more exciting! Skill shots>>> denying. League has a lot more "twitch" combat and the fights arelonger. I used to love data/hon.. but after getting used to league it is definitely the superior game in my opinion.
Mures
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Really? I think they look pretty good, especially when compared to what is on the market. Any f2p game being released is going to ensure it can be played on 10 year old pcs.
Unfortunately almost always, isn't always, see Diablo 3. Fortunately, I think the graphics are fine the way they are.
This game will be the tfc of mobas.
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Well it is your opinion and you're entitled to it, but no. Yes LoL has more skillshots, 3/4 of them are also easier than the most basic non targetted spell in dota to land. Largely due to the fact dota has turning rates and casting points, which lol has removed entirely/normalized to very quick speed. So I guess it's more "twitchy", it also means it's a fuckton easier to land anything in lol than it is in dota, meaning there's a lot less reason to be impressed when someone lands something.
I also think you mix twitch with spamming, LoL has a lot of low cooldown abilities that have very little impact and are there to increase your sustained damage in an active way, kinda like playing wow and spamming your filler every GCD if other stuff isn't up, while dota relies more on longer cd more impactful abilities. It does lead to some heroes playing fairly passively and mostly unloading everything at once then not doing shit for a while, while LoL has a lot of heroes that constantly spam stuff which feels like more active gameplay, but doing Trundle Q spam or Irelia Q(I think it was, been a long time) doesn't really add anything other than that, mechanical spam. It's like saying Bristleback is the best hero to play because you can quill every 5seconds.
As for comparing skillshots to denying, a fucking stupid comparison of 2 elements that have nothing to do with each other. Smokes are better than bushes. TPs are better than respawning inhibitors. Courier is better than Dragon. See how stupid comparing unrelated stuff is?
In the end people play what they like and that's cool.