Levels matter in hots and since the xp pool is shared if your entire team is competent and the other team terrible you will eventually walk over them. However this puts less individual stress on each player. If you have one terrible person feeding a carry you're bound to lose the game barring miracles. But here it pretty much means you just need to execute your team fights a bit better.
Heroes of the Storm
- Thread starter Mures
- Start date
Sulrn
Deuces
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That ability to snowball takes effort and some degree of skill which adds complexity to the game. It also provides a degree of strategy/tactics by giving an aware team the opportunity to exploit players who are always alone/out of position. Which creates the need for vision and soneone filling a support role outside of healing/buffing.
That snowball effect adds a lot to the game that makes it's gameplay meaningful beyond coordinating skill spam on 1-2 heros then clearing the dungeon of skeletons and killing the bone lord. . .
That snowball effect adds a lot to the game that makes it's gameplay meaningful beyond coordinating skill spam on 1-2 heros then clearing the dungeon of skeletons and killing the bone lord. . .
If your team clears the skeleton dungeon and the enemy doesn't that is basically the definition of a snowball because they aren't killing your 100 skull golumn.
Just going to respond to this since it mostly applies to the other responses that were made as well:
In an FPS game, do you think that the early phases of say, a CTF game don't matter because the other team isn't weakened as a result? Does having a 3-0 lead in that sort of game not matter? If a team is playing like shit for 5 minutes in HOTS, it means that you've pushed and become significantly closer to winning the game. Why should the other team get crippled as an additional effect, when they're already far behind for purposes of winning the game by game objectives? There's just no reason to have the additional team crippling effect that you have in DOTA.
For reference on comparing the two:
Teamfight win in HOTS:
+ Significant pushing. Much closer to winning the game.
+ Mild hero power boost (nothing compared to other MOBAs though)
Teamfight win in DOTA:
+ Significant pushing. Much closer to winning the game.
+ Massive hero power
+ Crippled enemy team.
I really don't understand why people prefer major snowballing and act like it's needed as a penalty. If you fuck up in HOTS, you lose significant progress towards winning the game - isn't that enough?
Amzin
Lord Nagafen Raider
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And because mobas are not CTF. The win conditions are very, very different. Snowballing in League/dota is vastly overestimated in all but the highest tier of matches, which is why lower-skill games last so long, snowballing has a much less noticeable (or no) effect. If anything the psychology of the teams matters more than the actual statistical difference in 90% of those games. HotS looks like a moba and sort of feels like a moba but it's almost different enough to be called something else. It reminds me more of battlegrounds, anyway, aside from the top-down aspect.
Edit: Actually, come to think of it, that's probably the reason CTF is so damn unpopular anymore. If you have two evenly-matched teams, it is boring as fuck because no one can get any advantage over the other.
Edit: Actually, come to think of it, that's probably the reason CTF is so damn unpopular anymore. If you have two evenly-matched teams, it is boring as fuck because no one can get any advantage over the other.
Sulrn
Deuces
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They rape a 99? skull golem in the dev video. Unless it got rebalanced, a lone golem ain't shit. Which is my gripe with the entire game. Everything is neutered.
Haven't seen a game drop off so quickly on twitch, seems like all the streamers went back to their games.
Del
Vyemm Raider
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My question is how does a company make a game, say its made for gaming rejects in so many words, and then actually have people flock too it, in some way excited and thrilled over the fact that they are the target audience.
Edit - Btw I have no fucking clue why this is my avatar. Did an admin go into my account and give me this? Because I've never selected an avatar since joining this forum.
Edit - Btw I have no fucking clue why this is my avatar. Did an admin go into my account and give me this? Because I've never selected an avatar since joining this forum.
khalid
Unelected Mod
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They didn't say it was made for gaming rejects. They are making it accessible to people that don't want to deal with the bullshit that exists in LoL.
As others have pointed out already, shit like rampant snowballing and last hit are shitty mechanics. They also are in no way exclusive to what MOBAs should be about either. Last hit was only put in because of an engine issue early on in the games. Rampant snowballing actually makes the game less interesting to me, because it makes comebacks virtually impossible.
You people sound exactly like all the people complaining about how WoW has no skill and ole-skool EQ was so great because of shit like corpse-runs, having to have food in your inventory, a spellbook in your face while sitting down and the like. Fuck off.
Dandain
Trakanon Raider
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My biggest thing is just don't call it a moba and don't expect it to be. Its not - The map defines lol and dota as much as last hitting, the item shop and the fact that the map does not have quests or events. There is a reason they are very very close in relative design. This is definitely just like WoW Battleground from the perspective of Warcraft the RTS.
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On the snowballing thing, it seems to really depend on the map. They're definitely not balanced properly(the main objectives I mean). Like when you do the skeleton golem map, even a max golem is still fairly shit, you know which lane it's coming on, where it spawns, in how long and it's just an AI that doesn't defend itself and just truck on, so basically a big siege unit. It's easy to mount up a defense and successfully push back your opponent and if they got too greedy and dove in the base you probably get your advantage back, plus if they 5man with the golem, even your 0 golem is gonna get a tower or some shit, giving you something to even out what the opponent will get, if they splitpush you can kill it fast with 2people and delay their push with 3, you'll lose a bit of shit on both lanes but not much on either.
On the other hand, the map with the pirates you're pretty much fucked if you can't 5vs5 and win, because all they have to do is spam the pirate canon and there is no counter, your buildings just take insane damage over and over without the enemy team even having to actively push, all they have to do is hold the middle(which is easier than pushing into an enemy base, no tower/farther from spawn).
The map with the curse is like pants on retarded, if you coordinate having mercenaries in one lane and pushing the other when you get the curse, you can finish the game in one push without having any advantage before that if you do win the one teamfight. Like I've seen a game end in something like 10mins because they slaughtered the enemy team during the first curse push and just pushed straight to the base in one go. That's just dumb as shit and that's the map with the highest potential for snowball(but also arguably highest potential for comeback if you can get the curse yourself).
The dragon map I've found was the best, as long as everyone understands how the map works(so they don't let you get a dragon at 5mins for free). It gives a tangible advantage but it's a counterable one(you can either prevent them from clicking mid or capping one of the 2 spots) and even when it pops it's not the end of the game, but gives a fair advantage to the pushing team(but since it replaces a player, it's not like a huge advantage and it can't be used for splitpushing as well as the mercs or the golem).
The game itself looks fun but like it'd be boring quickly, and if they release heroes at a blizzard pace, then I don't know how much retention they'll get. It's F2P though so whatever I guess.
On the other hand, the map with the pirates you're pretty much fucked if you can't 5vs5 and win, because all they have to do is spam the pirate canon and there is no counter, your buildings just take insane damage over and over without the enemy team even having to actively push, all they have to do is hold the middle(which is easier than pushing into an enemy base, no tower/farther from spawn).
The map with the curse is like pants on retarded, if you coordinate having mercenaries in one lane and pushing the other when you get the curse, you can finish the game in one push without having any advantage before that if you do win the one teamfight. Like I've seen a game end in something like 10mins because they slaughtered the enemy team during the first curse push and just pushed straight to the base in one go. That's just dumb as shit and that's the map with the highest potential for snowball(but also arguably highest potential for comeback if you can get the curse yourself).
The dragon map I've found was the best, as long as everyone understands how the map works(so they don't let you get a dragon at 5mins for free). It gives a tangible advantage but it's a counterable one(you can either prevent them from clicking mid or capping one of the 2 spots) and even when it pops it's not the end of the game, but gives a fair advantage to the pushing team(but since it replaces a player, it's not like a huge advantage and it can't be used for splitpushing as well as the mercs or the golem).
The game itself looks fun but like it'd be boring quickly, and if they release heroes at a blizzard pace, then I don't know how much retention they'll get. It's F2P though so whatever I guess.
