Heroes of the Storm

LiLi is still the best healer, even with her nerfs. Good sustainability and provides some nice DPS with her baby dragon buff.

Murky is still annoying as fuck. Any game with him turns into 4v4 or you lose because of his methods. Had a game where each team had a murky, it was a 3v3 >_<

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Psi storm was a really good change for Tassadar. He was never really a true healer with his long CD shield, so giving him some battle presence outside of Archon was really nice.

I'm thinking Sonya's skill cap might just be too high for me. I've been grouped with a few Sonya players who just wreck faces. But the majority seem to not know what they're doing. Landing that spear and staying locked on a target is just tough, IMO.

I've realized that I need to hold off judgement of who is OP and who isn't by playing at least a dozen games on the character. Some games I'll play Raynor and absolutely destroy faces then other games I'll just get constantly picked off time after time. Some times I'll play Nova and get 25 takedowns and the other team can never seem to touch me. Other games I only get a handful of takedowns with 5+ deaths. Sometimes on Hammer I can push to the core by myself then other times I'm getting blink assassinated the entire damn time.

So far the only two that I feel I've consistently felt are possibly too good are Tass and LiLi. Honestly I find Tass a bit more powerful than LiLi. With LiLi you can just focus her and she'll pop instantly. With Tass he'll shield himself, go invulnerable into the fog then start shielding from the back line. It is very hard to just "pop" Tass. Even then towards the late game his damage becomes really pathetic and becomes just a shield bot while efficiently clearing creep waves.

You can pay for heroes via your BNet balance, yes? I got a $50 Visa GC from work and was planning on just loading it to my BNet balance to buy the heroes the variety bundle lacked like Murky.

mures_sl said:

I never played wow and this isn't the first time I've seen this so I just watched a youtube video of a wow battleground to compare. Wow battlegrounds are exactly like eq2 battlegrounds which are essentially nothing like HotS. Saying HotS is essentially battlegrounds is like saying gauntlet is essentially diablo. Believe it or not there are still people out there who have never played/watched a moba before because I see people ask in twitch chat all the time ask things like how do you play this game? And to those people I can understand telling them its kinda like wow battlegrounds, because to someone who has never played/seen a moba before they can understand ok, its team based pvp, each player has various skills they can use, and there is an objective to achieve, but that is really where the similarities end.

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The comparison is usually made thinking that you know what a MOBA is and how it's basically played. HOTS is like WOW BGs because of how the game is set up. In WOW, you have a bunch of battlegrounds that people play in where not a single map is standard and all are treating equally in a general way. Same thing in HOTS.

In DOTA2/LOL you have one standard Map. LOL has a bunch of other games, but the standard map is what nearly everyone plays on, it's the single point of reference. This is the first comparison.

The second point is that in HOTS there is no way to customize or differentiate yourself from others outside your talent points. Which is essentially WOW battlegrounds given equal gear. In a WOW BG your individual kill/assist(healing?) score means nothing outside a bragging reference point. Obviously, they more successful you are the better you're helping your team most likely. However in traditional MOBAs, your score directly translates into your personal power level. Gain more kills, you gain more gold. More gold equals more items and power spikes. You can't do that in HOTS/WOW BGs.

That's basically what it comes down to on a high end view point.

Tenks_sl said:

Playing with people who obviously have some MOBA experience but not much is the worse. When you are idle in this game (ie: normal "farm" time in a MOBA) you need to be capping and contesting camps. Not just sitting in lane getting 5 XP an hour. They also need to realize that deaths happen in this game and they happen a lot. Chasing down someone with bloodlust isn't going to win the game. Objectives will win the game. I lost a game yesterday where we were 39-16 in kills but lost because we couldn't get Dragon Knight to save our fucking lives.

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The same thing could be said about bad players in LOL. A person who tunnelvisions their lane and doesn't roam, or chases to often, or doesn't take towers is not a good player. A decent player in the laning phase can dominate his lane, pick up kills and transition to other lanes to apply pressure.

Oh btw, for those who think the game is based off of WoW BGs, you are mistaken. This game is a close copy of Hero Attack, which is like or was like the 3rd/4th most popular custom game in StarCraft 2. The unique feature of this game that Hero Attack does not do is the map objectives. Hero Attack still had the same hot key setups, item slots (aka talent slots), but no talent tree. This is like a professional version of Hero Attack, which maybe why I like it so much. I played the shit out of Hero Attack.

The game is really a fresh concept and trying to compare it to anything else falls short. There is nothing that does what HOTS does. It is a fresh take on online battlegrounds and MOBAs but is too dissimilar from DOTA/LoL/WoW/Smite that trying to draw similarities will always fall short. The removal of items and personal XP opens up a huge door for heroes and mechanics that could never be possible in any other game. Could you imagine a Murky style hero in DOTA2? Abathur couldn't be possible in either game.

Tenks_sl said:

The game is really a fresh concept and trying to compare it to anything else falls short. There is nothing that does what HOTS does. It is a fresh take on online battlegrounds and MOBAs but is too dissimilar from DOTA/LoL/WoW/Smite that trying to draw similarities will always fall short. The removal of items and personal XP opens up a huge door for heroes and mechanics that could never be possible in any other game. Could you imagine a Murky style hero in DOTA2? Abathur couldn't be possible in either game.

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Yep, Hero Attack hero baneling. =)

This has been done, seriously need to check out Hero Attack. It needs to get its proper due in the influence of this game.

Heroes of the Storm (Gameplay) - Sonya, The Barbarian (DQ#26)

I was looking for a Sonya vid and found this guy harping about staying in a lane to soak xp. Maybe it's just my lack of MOBA experience, but I've kinda felt that after level 4, it's not strictly necessary to lane farm / push towers alone and it's more valuable to be getting objectives and capturing or killing mercs (unless you're Sgt Hammer or Murky).

From my very limitied experience, people who tend to merc more, then push with mercs, or hit objectives, then push with objectives there by pushing the lane hard tend to level up really quickly. I have been on both sides of it, sometimes outleveling an opponent by 3, but I have also been on a very bad team where the jumped on us by 6 levels. Needless to say we got crushed.

Neph_sl said:

Heroes of the Storm (Gameplay) - Sonya, The Barbarian (DQ#26)

I was looking for a Sonya vid and found this guy harping about staying in a lane to soak xp. Maybe it's just my lack of MOBA experience, but I've kinda felt that after level 4, it's not strictly necessary to lane farm / push towers alone and it's more valuable to be getting objectives and capturing or killing mercs (unless you're Sgt Hammer or Murky).

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I didn't watch the video but no one really knows what is *best* right now. There isn't really a competitive scene in HOTS. You can't match your 5 man stack up against their 5 man stack unless you just hit during match making.

It also depends on your team comp, the map and the heroes. On that map the objective spawns right next to your lane. You don't have to instantly turn in the coins. You can hit the chest, get coins and stand around for a while getting XP until you feel it is appropriate to turn in. Capping mercs blindly is *ok* but it is better if there is an idea behind it. They help immensely with a push and if you just cap them and run its pretty easy for your opponent to just kill them. On the Raven map depending on your comp it is sometimes better to not contest the first or second tribute so you can get up to level 10 while the opponent is level 9 then destroy the teamfight with your ultimate and get the next 3 tributes and snowball from there.

I didn't embed it bc it's not really worth a watch, just a point of reference for the curious.

I've never tried the Raven tribute thing, but that sounds like a legit plan.

In the Mines map, I was on a team once that completely ignored the mines the first time just to go for mercs. That was the plan from the beginning, but we were down two camps when the mines opened. We grab the last three and try to push a lane with a camp while 2 people from the opposing team push us back and the other 3 are in the mines. A 100 skull golem comes out and our entire team has to fall back to stop the golem. At the same time, they're pushing the other lane, and wreck our fort. We never even managed to take out one fort with our merc push. From there, we started going into the mines, but we eventually lost. A few games later, I'm on the team that gets a 100 skull golem and we demolish them.

For the Pirate map, if there's no enemies controlling mid, why wouldn't you just turn in? It seems risky to be running around with 3+ coins that could go to the enemy if you're caught out of position.

The Dragon Knight map is a little different in that contesting the objective doesn't always seems worth it. He's helpful, but I was in a back and forth match where no one was controlling the shrines long enough to get a knight and no one had pushed past any gates. I fell back and got some mercs for bot lane and we ended up pushing through the fort and getting the knight while they fell back to defend.

Point being, my general understanding of the overall game is: objectives > mercs = team fights (pushing/defending)

Tenks_sl said:

The game is really a fresh concept and trying to compare it to anything else falls short. There is nothing that does what HOTS does. It is a fresh take on online battlegrounds and MOBAs but is too dissimilar from DOTA/LoL/WoW/Smite that trying to draw similarities will always fall short. The removal of items and personal XP opens up a huge door for heroes and mechanics that could never be possible in any other game. Could you imagine a Murky style hero in DOTA2? Abathur couldn't be possible in either game.

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What are you even talking about? I just looked up Abathur, I don't see anything that couldn't be done or hasn't been done in either game. Same thing with Murky.

HOTS is essentially LOL/DOTA2 with different twists. No gold or items. Shared EXP. HOTS has an in-game talent tree you level up with, while LOL has mastery pages/rune pages you load up pre-game. Instead of using a standard 3-lane map that DOTA2/LOL use, it has it's own rotation of different maps.

It's a different take for sure, but let's avoid saying silly things like "There is nothing that does what HOTS does." It's a MOBA with a different rule set.

Dis: The reason why I say WOW BGs is because it's most likely the most common shared experience of people playing these games. I didn't say it was inspired by WOW BGs or anything of that sort. It's just a decent way of attempting to explain the difference between HOTS and LOL/DOTA2.

The initial opening of the mines is the only opportunity to ignore the mines. But, again, it depends on your team comp. If you have a team good at clearing the mines then send someone (someONE) down into the mines to slowly clear while you defend the merc push. If your team is good at pushing then keep all five above and perform a strong push with the mercs then enter the mines to contest.

Trying to say "This is more important than this which is more important than this" is always misleading and can lead to problems. If you are so tunnel vision on clearing mercs while your team is wiping on a 4v5 team fight the mercs you capture aren't going to be important. Because now you're the only hero alive supported by knights who will just die to two rotations of hero skills.

On the pirate map, and any map but especially the pirate map, you should never be "oops theres a team there and I died." You need to exercise caution when you don't know whats on the other side of a choke or the other side of the smoke. To turn in your coins you are basically putting yourself out of commission for effectively the time it takes to hearthstone and return. That is a pretty decent amount of time to run to the chest, turn in and run back to do something important. The whole time unless you know exactly where the other team is stationed there are a *ton* of places to hide around the chest. Two huge smoke stacks, two "shark" stacks and the triangle just south of the turn in chest. It isn't always a safe proposition especially if the other team has cloaked assassins. Sure if you win a team fight there and control the chest just turn in but just because you have a few coins doesn't mean you should obsess about turning them in.

Draegan_sl said:

What are you even talking about? I just looked up Abathur, I don't see anything that couldn't be done or hasn't been done in either game. Same thing with Murky.

HOTS is essentially LOL/DOTA2 with different twists. No gold or items. Shared EXP. HOTS has an in-game talent tree you level up with, while LOL has mastery pages/rune pages you load up pre-game. Instead of using a standard 3-lane map that DOTA2/LOL use, it has it's own rotation of different maps.

It's a different take for sure, but let's avoid saying silly things like "There is nothing that does what HOTS does." It's a MOBA with a different rule set.

Dis: The reason why I say WOW BGs is because it's most likely the most common shared experience of people playing these games. I didn't say it was inspired by WOW BGs or anything of that sort. It's just a decent way of attempting to explain the difference between HOTS and LOL/DOTA2.

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I don't know anything about LoL but there is no hero in DOTA that even resembles Abathur or Murky.

Although now I'm realizing you've never played the game so I'm not sure why you're putting in your opinion about the game as fact so much

Tenks_sl said:

Trying to say "This is more important than this which is more important than this" is always misleading and can lead to problems. If you are so tunnel vision on clearing mercs while your team is wiping on a 4v5 team fight the mercs you capture aren't going to be important. Because now you're the only hero alive supported by knights who will just die to two rotations of hero skills.

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That's fair, changed my stance to mercs = team fights.

Tenks_sl said:

On the pirate map, and any map but especially the pirate map, you should never be "oops theres a team there and I died." You need to exercise caution when you don't know whats on the other side of a choke or the other side of the smoke. To turn in your coins you are basically putting yourself out of commission for effectively the time it takes to hearthstone and return. That is a pretty decent amount of time to run to the chest, turn in and run back to do something important. The whole time unless you know exactly where the other team is stationed there are a *ton* of places to hide around the chest. Two huge smoke stacks, two "shark" stacks and the triangle just south of the turn in chest. It isn't always a safe proposition especially if the other team has cloaked assassins. Sure if you win a team fight there and control the chest just turn in but just because you have a few coins doesn't mean you should obsess about turning them in.

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That's an interesting point. I've never seen anyone hiding in the smoke or clutter around the turn in. I normally just ping the map to say I'm turning in and someone usually comes along to block.