Hex: Shards of Fate TCG - Set 7: Frostheart 6/29/17

But Hexismtg, like, I can't think of a single difference aside from some digital format abilities that mtg couldn't do in paper.

I've been holding off really playing Hex until the whole thing shakes out, as I'm reasonably certain they are going to get buttfucked and the whole thing will crash and burn.

It's a good game, but I don't want to invest time and/or money when I don't think it will survive.

I believe Hex will come out of this just fine. They have top-tier legal representation (the kind who don't take cases that are obvious losers) and they seem to be willing to take it to the mat. The beta economy is behaving quite healthily right now and the game is a lot of fun.

If you spend an hour in the game, you notice very quickly that the game behaves very differently than mtg. The most obvious differences for me are with champions, gems, perm buffs to cards, and the replication mechanic that opens up metas that cannot exist in a format that must support physical play.

Once the pve mechanics are fleshed out, the overlap will be even smaller.

Obviously things like 5 colors + colorless, initial hand size, many card mechanics (flight, steadfast, speed, swiftstrike, etc.) are the same, but there are others that are new (inspire, rage, escalation).

I am having a blast playing the game right now and have followed the law closely enough to believe that my time and money are not likely to be wasted. If it does go down in flames, at least I will have had many months of playing a very fun game. I regret buying titanfall a lot more than I will ever regret spending the money I have on Hex.

Also - legally speaking - for the copyright claim to have weight, you have to show that customers are literally confused that one game is not the other. Common sense tells me that very, very few (if any) people actually believe they are playing mtg or a mtg expansion when they load up Hex.

Trade dress and patent stuff are different, but the copyright argument has no merit here and Hasbro knows it.

Mikey78_sl said:

Obviously things like 5 colors + colorless, initial hand size, many card mechanics (flight, steadfast, speed, swiftstrike, etc.) are the same, but there are others that are new (inspire, rage, escalation).
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Not to go all "Simpsons did it". But isn't rage = bushido, inspire = evolve/ally combo, and escalation the kindle/ak/muscle burst with zenith mechanic?

Those were mikey's defense, examples of mechanics that were not straight copies like the others. So, your hypothetical would be in reverse. With hasbro pointing out that they are not exactly new, groundbreaking mechanics.

Mikey78_sl said:

Also - legally speaking - for the copyright claim to have weight, you have to show that customers are literally confused that one game is not the other. Common sense tells me that very, very few (if any) people actually believe they are playing mtg or a mtg expansion when they load up Hex.

Trade dress and patent stuff are different, but the copyright argument has no merit here and Hasbro knows it.

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Confusion is trademarks not copyright. Copyright is irrelevant in the case despite Hasbro claiming otherwise. If Hex -actually- copied card faces/art/lore you might have a claim. They are relying on the patents which have continually been beaten in court and trade dress which is to say they are trying to pull an Apple and claim beveled edges are their invention.

Lasch_sl said:

Not to go all "Simpsons did it". But isn't rage = bushido, inspire = evolve/ally combo, and escalation the kindle/ak/muscle burst with zenith mechanic?

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I have been out of mtg for a while, but I think the following is correct:

Rage is different from bushido (rage is perm boost, bushido is while blocking / attacking - rage is attack only, bushido is +x/+x)

Inspire effects subsequent cards that have cost >= the original while ally effects impacted all other allies

I do not know what the kindle thing you mentioned is, but escalation does not work like the zenith cards I know in mtg (could be wrong on this one).

And yes, whoever corrected me on copyright - you are right. I meant trademark. It is an argument Hasbro is making that will not hold water. Their other arguments seem weak to me, but that one seems ridiculous.

This is the American court system - does it matter how much of a case Hasbro does or does not have if they just drag things out long enough to bankrupt Hex?

OneofOne_sl said:

This is the American court system - does it matter how much of a case Hasbro does or does not have if they just drag things out long enough to bankrupt Hex?

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Hex does not seem to be behaving like a firm short on cash. The lawyers they have engaged are from a firm I have worked with professionally and know are very expensive. The specific lawyer on their side has previously won a case against Wizards on a related complaint. Who knows what their books actually look like, but they are not behaving like a company just trying to survive right now.

Here is the Hex lawyer if anyone cares:

http://www.dorsey.com/meiklejohn_paul/

and the other case:

http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/kb9...the-coast-inc/

Yeah and I can show you exactly how that behavior works out for some new gaming companies, regardless of their actual cash reserves. Frankly I find it indicative of nothing.

Fair enough. I am not really trying to predict the future with any of this. The game might get shutdown. That might happen for legitimate reasons or BS reasons. So be it.

I am having fun with it now. If it shuts tomorrow, I will have gotten far more value for my $$ than I have from any other game purchase I have made in the last two years. If it lasts forever, awesome. If not, it lasted about 50 times longer than Titanfall did for me.

Lasch_sl said:

Not to go all "Simpsons did it". But isn't rage = bushido, inspire = evolve/ally combo, and escalation the kindle/ak/muscle burst with zenith mechanic?

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No, those are all quite different.

Bushido - when that creature blocks or is blocked, it gains +X/+X until end of turn. E.g. your 2/2 attacks, is blocked, becomes 4/4 until end of turn then goes back to 2/2
vs
Rage - when a creature attacks, it permanently gains +X. E.g. your 2/2 attacks, instantly becomes 4/2 and stays that way. If it attacks again next turn it will become 6/2 etc.

Evolve - if another creature with higher power or toughness enters play, add a +1/+1 token to it
vs
Inspire - any creature with a higher cost cast while this one is in play permanently gains (X), where X is stats or an ability, e.g. flight, swiftstrike, speed etc. Includes some interesting meta effects like sword trainer which inspires it's own current attack value into other creatures.

Escalation vs combination of 4 other keywords - this is actually pretty close, but the fact that you needed to combine four different keywords in a different way to match it probably should suggest that being an outright copy is kind of off base ;p I.e. that one is exactly the same as if you took these ones and stuck them together and combined it with that one, and then implemented it differently.

This is the only game that made me think "I think company X is going to sue them" I didn't have this thought ever before even when I played RIFT's Beta.

To be honest Hex does play like MTG in its very CORE and that's the problem. Every other addition feels like an expansion. It's like the two-headed-ogre variance of the many MTG variance that can change the game a little; but the core is the same. Didn't MTGO had something like the Champion thing Hex has? I AM SURE I played a "champion" in MTGO last decade. Some avatar with special unique ability.

However, that doesn't give WotC the rights to sue them because "game mechanics" are not copy righted, right?

Otherwise ID soft should sue every FPS out there.