Intrinsic
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I don't think anyone is? Maybe something was misread. I certainly don't think you do lol
Home Improvement
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I don't think anyone is? Maybe something was misread. I certainly don't think you do lol
Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Intrinsic
Person of Whiteness
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*edit: disregard all that, I may have a better idea. Or worse. Hopefully better.
Spelunked around in the attic for a few minutes, dug through about 28 feet of insulation and ran my gloved hand along all the studs to trace wires.
I can easily get to the hallway light fixture and the two hallway switches. The light fixture is 8' or less from the closet, as illustrated by my professional illustration skills below.
The wiring for the fixture has 2 wires, going to switch outside of closet (which is just out of frame of the closet door) and to the end of the hallway by the stairs.
There are two other adjacent rooms to that closet. My office (behind where I'm standing for photo) and bathroom which is the door in the middle of hallway.
Spelunked around in the attic for a few minutes, dug through about 28 feet of insulation and ran my gloved hand along all the studs to trace wires.
I can easily get to the hallway light fixture and the two hallway switches. The light fixture is 8' or less from the closet, as illustrated by my professional illustration skills below.
The wiring for the fixture has 2 wires, going to switch outside of closet (which is just out of frame of the closet door) and to the end of the hallway by the stairs.
There are two other adjacent rooms to that closet. My office (behind where I'm standing for photo) and bathroom which is the door in the middle of hallway.
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I got quotes 2 months ago. I have a 5500 sq foot home. Basement and 2 stories to give you an idea. This is for ac and furnace. It was through a company who works with Home Depot.
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ToeMissile
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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A single 4 ton unit seems on the small side for 5500 sqft. Geography matters a lot obviously.
Erronius
Macho Ma'am
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"Professional illustration skills", you say? Well here's my
If the two wires at the ceiling light are "3" wires (prob 14/3, they look more 'round' as opposed to 14/2 that's generally flat in the US) then this is how it's probably wired, assuming the 'dead end' 3-way you showed the other day is at the end of this.
But this is *MY* choice of how I'd use the colored conductors (using Red and Black exclusively for the travelers) but I've seen other people do it differently.
So there should only be 1 box with both a constant hot and a neutral in it, so you can rob power out of it (the first switch box)
If you ever drop that light down off the ceiling and it's hanging by two white wires, then that's what they did.
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If you want a good compound miter saw, I recommend this.
Summer time here is from now to September. My ac is 28 years old , like 6 seer 3 ton. The basement and 1st and 80% of the 2nd story gets cool pretty quickly. I would love to see how a 4 ton seer would rock. I know our power bill is 60% higher than what it could be from the internet mathing. For better reference 3k sq foot is the 1st and 2nd. The rest is the basement. I’ve even thought of getting the zoned ac/heating. They told me it’s be about 15k.
Dandai
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Big
Erronius
- the breaker on the circuit to my well shed keeps tripping. I did some Florida Man troubleshooting and determined the short was between another outlet and the shed to narrow down the amount of digging I’d have to do. When I went to follow the wire, I found it was just UF wire, no conduit, and definitely not 12” (plz don’t tell mrs Dandai).
My understanding is new UF wire only needs to be buried 12” if it’s on a GFCI breaker.
1. Is that accurate?
2. How can I tell it’s a GFCI breaker?
3. Would it be “better” to do it differently? I’m assuming this circuit has been here since the house was built ~20 years ago so just doing what they did before would be plenty good enough for me.
Erronius
- the breaker on the circuit to my well shed keeps tripping. I did some Florida Man troubleshooting and determined the short was between another outlet and the shed to narrow down the amount of digging I’d have to do. When I went to follow the wire, I found it was just UF wire, no conduit, and definitely not 12” (plz don’t tell mrs Dandai).My understanding is new UF wire only needs to be buried 12” if it’s on a GFCI breaker.
1. Is that accurate?
2. How can I tell it’s a GFCI breaker?
3. Would it be “better” to do it differently? I’m assuming this circuit has been here since the house was built ~20 years ago so just doing what they did before would be plenty good enough for me.
Erronius
Macho Ma'am
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Big
My understanding is new UF wire only needs to be buried 12” if it’s on a GFCI breaker.
1. Is that accurate?
2. How can I tell it’s a GFCI breaker?
3. Would it be “better” to do it differently? I’m assuming this circuit has been here since the house was built ~20 years ago so just doing what they did before would be plenty good enough for me.
View attachment 475448
I think the 12" when on a GFI is correct. Though TBH I don't know when they added the GFI portion.
Most GFCI breakers should have a 'push to test' button on the face of them just like GFCI receptacles do. Then just reset the handle.
As far as redoing it goes, I guess it really depends on you. It's a PITA when it's just you and a shovel, so I wouldn't give you flak if you just reburied it at the same depth. If it doesn't have a GFCI then you might want to upgrade to that, at least. Bad thing though is it looks like you have a fuckton of sand, so while that's easier to dig out it's also easier to fuck up buried cables if you don't bury them deep enough.
If you have that circuit GFCI protected, then it's less a hazard and more a PITA in case it gets damaged again in the future (IMHO).
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Burns
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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If you want to get it deeper and run a fresh ground rated cable, rent a trencher, they are worth it and make quick work of it. HD here has a 18" trencher 4h rental for $67 or $100 for the day and a 24" trencher 4h for $160 and $230 for the day. They have two more beyond that, at 36" and 48" too.Big
My understanding is new UF wire only needs to be buried 12” if it’s on a GFCI breaker.
1. Is that accurate?
2. How can I tell it’s a GFCI breaker?
3. Would it be “better” to do it differently? I’m assuming this circuit has been here since the house was built ~20 years ago so just doing what they did before would be plenty good enough for me.
View attachment 475448
If you want to add an extra layer of safety, they make marker tape that you bury some inches above the line, so when people are digging in the future, they know something is underneath and hopefully stop before they cut it.
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I would definitely bury it right and use conduit. The last rental I was in before buying my current place had a circuit run from the house to a receptacle by the pool. I got a MASSIVE power bill one month, and after some troubleshooting determined that the underground wire was compromised and shorting a constant 2 kW into the back yard. That was both expensive for the owner and a big safety hazard for me.
Lanx
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Dandai
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I followed the wire to the shed and it meandered way the fuck off a straight line from the outlet to the shed. No idea what, if anything, they were following to bury it. Some places the depth approached 12” but most was 6” or less. I found the nicked spot close to where I was clearing soil around this stump I’ve been burning. I’m real nervous about how the fucking 240 is run to the well pump. Surely that wouldn’t also be super shallow and accidentally stumbled across?
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Dandai
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I only bothered pulling up the old wire because I thought I could use that path to lay the new wire. By the time it became obvious I wouldn't want to do that, I was curious where this thing was heading.
Now that my curiosity is satisfied, I'm gonna use a pressure washer to cut a new path for new line. I'm not gonna bother with conduit but I will use that marker tape
Burns
mentioned.Edit: also gonna pick up one of these as I’m sure this won’t be the last time I’ll want to run some wire and a pressure washer isn’t always gonna be practical:
Purchase The Wilton Thinline Trenching Spade. Official Site
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Erronius
Macho Ma'am
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The more pictures you post the sketchier it looks, LOL
I'm starting to feel like maybe you do need to go deeper with PVC and GFCI
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Dandai
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I checked the breaker before running to Lowe’s to get new wire. I see the GFCI breakers with the test buttons you described. This circuit doesn’t have one
I bought a GFCI outlet as an interim solution (so i can get the shed powered again). I say interim because I don’t think the line between the panel and the outlet is protected?
Re: conduit - I have a lot of drain pvc the previous homeowner abandoned. Would it be an awful idea to repurpose that to use as conduit?
Erronius
Macho Ma'am
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If it was me, I wouldn't. I'd just buy UL listed 'grey' PVC, with fittings.
I would never use white pipe on work FOR a customer. White pipe with electrical is usually a big red flag.
The reality is that there's not a huge difference, other than the color and the UL listing. Which really just means that specific conduit was tested and 'listed' for that specific use. Will white pipe work? Most likely. But whenever I've seen white pipe come out of the ground and transition, say, to an LB fitting, then I start wondering WTF is going on.
No idea what size conduit you have though. And this is the sort of thing where...if you were likely to either not use conduit, or use white conduit, then of course use the conduit you have. But I'd go with UL parts.
This thread is kind of tough for me though. If I go full-on pedantic, and go fully by the book, then it's going to be way over the top for most people in this thread. Most homeowners couldn't care less about NEC bullshit. I try to back off a bit so I'm not being too overbearing, but then with questions like this it's too easy to be 'too relaxed' in my answers, I guess. But sometimes people just want the 'What's the minimum I need to do to get'r done?' and at that point I'm like "JUST FUCKING SEND IT, IDGAF"
RE: GFCI outlet, I'm assuming that you have a couple of outlet 'stub ups' along the route of the circuit as it runs through the yard? So yeah, you could install a GFCI outlet at the first stub/junction, but yes, it would only load-protect everything downline from that point.
I would just buy a GFCI breaker for the circuit, myself. But if you've already bought an outlet and you don't want to spend the extra money a breaker, you can always mount the GFCI at the panel with the breaker in it, somewhat like it is a 'convenience' outlet. So run hot/neutral/ground to something like a 4" square box, some sort of nipple (offset, chase or straight), single gang plaster ring. Mount the GFCI in that. Feed into the LINE side from the breaker, then tie your underground UF cable to the LOAD side of the GFCI. You'll then have two trip & reset points (breaker will trip only on low impedance dead shorts, etc, and GFCI will trip when losing current to a ground fault) but that's better than not GFCI protecting the circuit at all.
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