Interstellar (2014)

rhinohelix

rhinohelix

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lendarios_sl said:
Im assuming you read my spoiler. If you remove the idea of an outside agent giving the humans the means to save themselves, then the extension is that "the human race as a whole, was able to survive the present ordeal(lack of food) and naturally evolve to be a 5th dim, or with technology they became a 5th dim". Now human race can be many people, or just one people.

So the first iteration is along the lines of: bunch of people dies, no wormhole exists. Then by "x" means, "x" been a mystery, someone or more than one human became 5th, and were able to be god like. Him, she, they, looked back and in time and provided assistance by creating the wormhole and the black hole (second iteration of the loop). On this iteration Cooper finds the base by himself, probably from the drone data. Then he travels to gargantuan and all stuff happened.

It is important to understand that the movies shows the third and stable iteration loop. Where the actions of the future already happened in the past, in a matter they don't contradict the actions of the past.
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There is no "loop"; there aren't any "run-throughs". Its just a single timeline. You are looking at it from a 3-D linear progression of causality. From the 5-D perspective, there isn't any "past" or "future". For the bulk beings, time to them is just like terrain for us that rises and falls, as Brand mentions in the movie. There isn't ever a time before they existed, and nothing they do "changes" the past from our perspective. If bulk beings are going to help you out by giving you money, there isn't any history from our perspective that ceases to be. You would just find 10 bucks in your wallet that you didn't know where it came from, rather than you not having any money, then robbing a liquor store, then someone from the future going back in time and giving you money in order to "undo" that. Cooper was always the ghost, Murph always solves gravity, and the wormhole always appears 48 years ago.

I would love to read what else people thought of as "silly science". Kip Thorne advised on the movie and wrote a book on the subject which I am sure has been mentioned in this thread. While there are liberties they take, they detail them all and most instances people think of as "plot holes" aren't.
 
ShakyJake

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Rhinohelix_sl said:
I would love to read what else people thought of as "silly science". Kip Thorne advised on the movie and wrote a book on the subject which I am sure has been mentioned in this thread. While there are liberties they take, they detail them all and most instances people think of as "plot holes" aren't.
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Pretty fucking sure no one is going to survive falling into a blackhole. The only out for this is that it wasn't a blackhole but an artificial construct that just happened to behave like one.
 
Brad2770

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I recognize all the places that were visited in Wanderers except where they were flying in the bird like suits. Where was that?

EDIT** Found my answer:

This Is A Majestic Vision Of Humans Embracing Our Exotic Solar System

ShakyJake_sl said:
Pretty fucking sure no one is going to survive falling into a blackhole. The only out for this is that it wasn't a blackhole but an artificial construct that just happened to behave like one.
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I would be willing to bet everyone thought Christopher Columbus wasn't going to survive as well.
 
rhinohelix

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ShakyJake_sl said:
Pretty fucking sure no one is going to survive falling into a blackhole. The only out for this is that it wasn't a blackhole but an artificial construct that just happened to behave like one.
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As described by Kip Thorne, the anatomy of a "black hole" fairly complex. There is the event horizon, from where nothing escapes, everyone knows blah blah blah. Inside the black hole, no one knows but theoretical physicists speculate (listed by Thorne as an "educated guess" in the book" that, in addition to the 100-million solar mass singularity at the heart of Gargantua, there are two other singularities moving in opposite directions towards objects that fall in, an uprising singularity and a descending singularity. Until one of those waves catches Cooper/TARS, which is in effect an very rapid imposition of infinite gravity, its *speculated* that due to the "gentle singularity" (very rapidly spinning, very massive Kerr singularity) inside Gargantua, he could survive, totally in theory.

What happens in Interstellar is that as Cooper and Tars pass the event horizon and fall towards the upcoming singularity, they are removed by the bulk beings, whatever their origin, and placed in the Tesseract.
 
rhinohelix

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reavor_sl said:
valid points. 4/10 for me. Too much sappyness. when the "message" from the bookshelf was "STAY", i figured it would be one of the characters sending the messages. also why did he have to sneak out to go find amelia in the end? why wouldn't the people of earth have sent fleets of ships there already? i thought that the whole robots telling the truth 90% of the time was setting up an interesting subplot, but nope.
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Because due to the time dilation of the final swing around Gargantua to send Brand on to Edmund's planet, she was arriving there at about the same time Cooper was waking up on Cooper Station.

The 90% comment was setting up the last exchange between Cooper and Amelia as they accelerated into the slingshot around Gargantua. He didn't tell her that both he and TARS were going to be detaching and falling into the black hole. "You said there was enough fuel for both of us!" "90%", he replies.
 
Kirun

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Finally saw this today. Great movie, but probably 4 or 5 on my list of Nolan favorites. That said, I really felt like..

They could've cut out the entire Matt Damon sequence. Not only was it cliche, it was completely unnecessary. It could've been him sending pings that all was well, in hopes of a rescue, but he ended up dying. Then you still could've done the whole "rotational docking" scene somehow, with the tension created by not going to Brandt's planet. The time devoted to the ridiculous Matt Damon scenes would've been better served putting more detail into the days/weeks/months leading up to the launch of Endurance.
 
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Seeing a lot of this on screen makes me really want to see someone take a run at making Second Genesis.
 
Enzee

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Finally caught this last night. If you didn't enjoy it because of 'weak writing' I think you are trying to be too elitist.
To address a few common complaints I've seen:

-When they land on waterworld, they are receiving the beacon but can't see anything. They ARE looking around for it, but for all they know she is 10 feet down in some kind of crater that they won't see till they are on top of it. So, they go walking towards the signal and find the wreckage (which is obscured by the water until you are on top of it). Dude that dies doesn't get into the ship thinking he may need to help load her in. He's being unselfish in helping Brand get in first, as she's more important to the mission at this point. These people are very unselfish and brave folk, they went on a mission that has a very high rate of death to save ALL OF MANKIND, they aren't thinking about their own personal self-preservation as much as you and I.

-The booster rocket was probably a lower efficiency fuel, that they had a ton of on earth. They go up in that, saving the ranger's fuel for travel between the planets. The ship they take is the last of the ships they had available, the previous ones were used on Lazarus. They don't have enough funding to build more, or more of that type of engine.

-We know practically nothing about the inside of a black hole, relatively speaking. From what we theorize, it's unlikely a human would survive from a physical sense. But, maybe he didn't? If he transcends dimensions upon entering/dying, and simply has a 'mind's eye' representation of himself while messing about in the tesseract. Upon leaving, he recreates his body outside Gargantua. We're dealing with highly theoretical, 5th dimensional stuff here.. it's literally impossible to say what is and isn't possible. Upon entering, the universe could have transformed into ice cream, ffs.
Or, as stated previously there is a theory of how a human would actually survive entering one as well.
 
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Finally got around to seeing this. Was certainly worth the price of admission, though I agree some parts were logically questionable (going to a planet with such a massive time dilation factor).
 
Lendarios

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Rhinohelix_sl said:
There is no "loop"; there aren't any "run-throughs". Its just a single timeline. You are looking at it from a 3-D linear progression of causality. From the 5-D perspective, there isn't any "past" or "future". For the bulk beings, time to them is just like terrain for us that rises and falls, as Brand mentions in the movie. There isn't ever a time before they existed, and nothing they do "changes" the past from our perspective. If bulk beings are going to help you out by giving you money, there isn't any history from our perspective that ceases to be. You would just find 10 bucks in your wallet that you didn't know where it came from, rather than you not having any money, then robbing a liquor store, then someone from the future going back in time and giving you money in order to "undo" that. Cooper was always the ghost, Murph always solves gravity, and the wormhole always appears 48 years ago.

I would love to read what else people thought of as "silly science". Kip Thorne advised on the movie and wrote a book on the subject which I am sure has been mentioned in this thread. While there are liberties they take, they detail them all and most instances people think of as "plot holes" aren't.
Click to expand...
Having loops in time, doesn't mean you don't have a single timeline. You still have one single timeline, the only thing that changes are the actions on them. Since the loop is stable you don't need alternate universes.
 
rhinohelix

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lendarios_sl said:
Having loops in time, doesn't mean you don't have a single timeline. You still have one single timeline, the only thing that changes are the actions on them. Since the loop is stable you don't need alternate universes.
Click to expand...
But that's the point of loops: nothing changes. It's always that way. With a single timeline, the events in the "past" will happen the first time through, as it were, with the only difference from any other action is the causal agent from our perspective would be in the future.

ShakyJake_sl said:
This wiki article explained away a few of my grievances. I kinda wish they explained this in the film (maybe they did and I wasn't paying attention):

Interstellar (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I still maintain that the time dilation they experienced on water world is wholly inaccurate.
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It's on the outside of possibility but from Kip Thorne's perspective, its just barely possible. The story goes that Christopher Nolan brought that time dilation ratio to the table and at first Kip balked that it wasn't possible. Nolan said it wasn't negotiable; after hearing that, Thorne went home and found the a way for it to be possible in the math. Now, that may be nitpicked as its awfully convenient, and my response would be that everything that happened on Earth, with Cooper's flight, etc. and they found in Gargantua's system was chosen for the purpose leading Cooper to that Tesseract and getting that data back to Murph; of course the system and circumstances from a in-movie perspective was carefully chosen to be exactly what the future humans/aliens/bulk beings needed it to be, for the purpose of getting humanity where it needed to go.
 
Lendarios

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Rhinohelix_sl said:
But that's the point of loops: nothing changes. It's always that way. With a single timeline, the events in the "past" will happen the first time through, as it were, with the only difference from any other action is the causal agent from our perspective would be in the future.
Click to expand...
Why nothing changes? You can have time as a single dimension from where u can move up or down on it. Having a loop from the perspective of a being living only in 3d does not affect anything. Cause and effect still exist for the 3d being and after the 3rd loop, the loop itself becomes the cause.
 
rhinohelix

rhinohelix

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lendarios_sl said:
Why nothing changes? You can have time as a single dimension from where u can move up or down on it. Having a loop from the perspective of a being living only in 3d does not affect anything. Cause and effect still exist for the 3d being and after the 3rd loop, the loop itself becomes the cause.
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Because from the 3D perspective you can't change the past, and from the 5D perspective, you don't have to because its all "now"; they don't need to loop. If there are 5D bulk beings, they *already* exist across all times, from our perspective, as they move through time without the need for linear causality. For us, it will be as if they always were.

It's a difficult concept to get one's head around, that a being from our future can affect our present by causing an event in their past, from our perspective. Just as a 2D being only sees height/the 3rd dimension in terms of the thin plane passing through his 2D world, we experience time in the same way. You have to let go of time as a line, because if such beings exist, they don't operate that way. They are outside of our understanding of time.
 
Rod-138

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Is there a thread about MM playing Randall Flag yet in The Stand? or did I dream that? tried search and didnt' find
 
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Rhinohelix_sl said:
Because from the 3D perspective you can't change the past, and from the 5D perspective, you don't have to because its all "now"; they don't need to loop. If there are 5D bulk beings, they *already* exist across all times, from our perspective, as they move through time without the need for linear causality. For us, it will be as if they always were.

It's a difficult concept to get one's head around, that a being from our future can affect our present by causing an event in their past, from our perspective. Just as a 2D being only sees height/the 3rd dimension in terms of the thin plane passing through his 2D world, we experience time in the same way. You have to let go of time as a line, because if such beings exist, they don't operate that way. They are outside of our understanding of time.
Click to expand...
from the 3d perpective u cant change the past, from the 5d you can change it, it just doesn't matter to you. You are god basically and nothing you do on the timeline affects you, as you are ommipresent in all time lines etc. However, what cooper did, was changing the past as a 5d being, when he started dropping the books, etc.
This means that he didnt affected the 5d beings, but he did affect his 3d humans.
For example. from that room he could have killed his grandfather before he was ever born. If he would ahve done that, he would have rewritten all the events, but him would be unaffected as he was outside of time as he was in the teseract.
 
rhinohelix

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lendarios_sl said:
from the 3d perpective u cant change the past, from the 5d you can change it, it just doesn't matter to you. You are god basically and nothing you do on the timeline affects you, as you are ommipresent in all time lines etc. However, what cooper did, was changing the past as a 5d being, when he started dropping the books, etc.
This means that he didnt affected the 5d beings, but he did affect his 3d humans.
For example. from that room he could have killed his grandfather before he was ever born. If he would ahve done that, he would have rewritten all the events, but him would be unaffected as he was outside of time as he was in the teseract.
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No, he couldn't. What he saw in the room in the past is only and specifically what he did in the Tesseract in the future, no more or less. In the Tesseract, he is able to mimic the 5D nature of the Bulk beings in a 3D space; its all taking place in the 5D "now". The actions he took in the future were precisely reflected in the past. If he had done anything else, he would seen it in the room before he left Earth. It's not "changing the past" at all.
 
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