Investing General Discussion

Zog

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Can you elaborate on this? Specifically, "Technological change can be an incredible force of disinflation". What are you suggesting?

If you employ 10 people at $10/hr and you replace them with robots, the cost of production goes down considerably, hence deflationary.

Amazon being able to completely automate their fulfilment centers with robots would absolutely explode in profitability.

Of course it's not just automation but just efficiency in all forms through technology.

Being able to just look at an inventory database instead of hunting through a giant pile of shit to see if you can sell someone something in itself saves labor and we've definitely come a long way in this but the great reset is with full automation for labor which will basically destroy the labor market but make everything so cheap, it's one of the biggest conundrums we will face, what are we all going to do when we don't need billions of low skilled workers to drive trucks and put shit in boxes?
 
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Tmac

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TRADING VIEW
Channeling my inner Zog:
Things I don't like..
Vix decline should have been more than today's 7.6% (10-15% would have been preferred)
HYG - Would like to have seen better performance today
IWM - Same as HYG but it's technical set up is better than SPY and is already at its 20d about to get on top
Volume - Today wasn't bad on volume at 115M shares on SPY but would have liked to see >140M
Breadth - We didn't clear 80% upside volume, came very close on nasdaq at 79%
Channel - Indexes have not cleared their downward channels

Lots of positives to look at as well but wanted to list some concerns, always about the weight of the evidence. Don't marry a view. I'm still in a stance where I could exit positions tomorrow based on what I see occurring. It's a very fine line of when to be patient and when to act when trying to trade this kind of environment and the one thing I can assure you is that it won't be easy. Tough markets won't ever give you a simple move. For example yesterday afternoons giveback and then reversal will have complicated today's move for a lot of traders. Bulls who dumped out to bears who took it as a short.

I ignored it because I looked at the weight of the evidence and today I made $15,000 for my trouble. Unless you really want the learning pain of these conditions I would not be doing a damn thing in this environment. This is not a market for dabbling. I do rather well in this climate but even as much as I enjoy this, it can be stressful because it requires being on top of my game and hammering discipline as to not slip up and even with that realizing it can trap you. Eventually we'll be back to a market so boring I can play video games occasionally glancing at a chart and make money and be longing for more excitement but for the intermediate future that is not in the cards.

It appears likely this rally could challenge the 20d ma but I'm still rather agnostic to maybe slightly tilting bearish on it's ability to clear.

View attachment 402364
Maybe 2018 correction is a good template. We would be around the blue arrow, maybe that final awful swoosh is needed. Maybe it's just a bit too on the nose for bears wanting the easy play.

INVESTING OUTLOOK NOT TRADING
I'm always cautious taking a bearish tone because I don't want people to act drastically. There are some concerning things. I do believe we are in a secular bull expansion, that is the backdrop. But it's imperative to look at the weight of the evidence and the chart and data in front of you and trend is weak right now and looking vulnerable. If the market can't defend this level that is a concern. I do think we could overshoot to as low as 380 but if did that and failed to get back over the 20 month avg then it doesn't matter my feelings on the secular trend. A bullish expansion can challenge the 20 month average and it does indeed lose it regularly but that is absolutely pay the fuck attention time and if the market does not rebound strongly and recapture then it may be time to sell even at hard losses.

I've said this before just like to repeat it, I will never chicken little a sell call. I don't jerk off to zero hedge articles. To capture the lion share of what a bull market has to offer you must be willing to suffer some very hard periods and some really ugly red screens. You should always get right with god and understand that if there comes a day to sell it won't be at some top it will be 10-20% down and you only sell down at that level because the weight of the evidence is a 45-60% drawdown. Declines that take years to recover from not months. Depending on your time frames even gut wrenching bear markets can just be sat through, accumulate what you can and wait them out.

So super long post to say...My OPINION is that if we lose 400-410 range in the coming weeks people should lighten up, if we drop to 380 without a strong and instant bounce with a clear breadth thrust then I'd go even more to cash. IF the market would play us with a fake out you must be willing to get back long if the trend recovers, that includes having to potentially enter higher than you sold. If you feel you can't do this emotionally then you really should just not make a move. We all have lived through one of the steepest declines in history just two years ago. A decline that just ripped through every support level like it was nothing. This recency bias can have people on edge we all know what's "possible", but to make money in the next decade we can't hide in cash always fearing the next covid plunge. Take it a day at a time and if you aren't willing to sell down 15% or if you don't think you can handle the move out and back in that may be required then it is in your best interest to turn it all off and just let it play out rather than risk fucking it up worse by taking action.

Asking the room, since Blazin's offline...

So, if SPX doesn't hold the 4190, what's the trigger for getting the fuck out? Not that I have the stones to get all aggro since Blazin's saying it could be a headfake. But, what's the trigger?
 

Loser Araysar

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Just bought some TSLA for the long hold.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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Asking the room, since Blazin's offline...

So, if SPX doesn't hold the 4190, what's the trigger for getting the fuck out? Not that I have the stones to get all aggro since Blazin's saying it could be a headfake. But, what's the trigger?
I dont believe in a "get the fuck out" move if you are a long term investor. If 4150 fails then a fall to 4050 is likely. That isnt great support so if that fails a visit to 3900 could be in the cards. Markets go up and markets go down. Inflation is at 8% so what are you going to do, sit on cash and watch it get obliterated by inflation? If you are investing for the long term then don't look at it right now its ugly. If you are trading then money can be made in chop like this but its quite risky. The markets are one tweet away from a +3% or a -3% move at any given minute.

1646925202240.png
 
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Zog

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QQQ on the 1hr
1646925418872.png



Needs to get back above 334 to at least have a hope of continuing an upward trend, its currently sitting at 331.60.

If buyers dont come in big, momentum will shift to the downside.

On the 1m chart:
1646925537132.png


We are seeing some big buys, I would imagine bulls will at least try to get on top of support at 334. If you want to short, watch for a hard rejection at 334. If up and consolidate, we'll still be waiting for a move at 3:50pm lol
 

Tmac

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I dont believe in a "get the fuck out" move if you are a long term investor. If 4150 fails then a fall to 4050 is likely. That isnt great support so if that fails a visit to 3900 could be in the cards. Markets go up and markets go down. Inflation is at 8% so what are you going to do, sit on cash and watch it get obliterated by inflation? If you are investing for the long term then don't look at it right now its ugly. If you are trading then money can be made in chop like this but its quite risky. The markets are one tweet away from a +3% or a -3% move at any given minute.

View attachment 402495

Oh, I'm quite used to the chop, but Blazin mentioned potential for a 50-60% rollback. I'm guessing there are several triggers then.
 

Sanrith Descartes

Von Clippowicz
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The WH, in writing, blamed inflation on Russia. That 5%+ rate we had a month before the Ukraine debacle doesn't count apparently.
edit: I should have added this is the WH ignoring inflation and having zero interest in fighting it. Its them saying "its not our fault, so deal with it and blame the other guy". This is really shitty news for the markets.

 
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Tmac

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I've said this before just like to repeat it, I will never chicken little a sell call. I don't jerk off to zero hedge articles. To capture the lion share of what a bull market has to offer you must be willing to suffer some very hard periods and some really ugly red screens. You should always get right with god and understand that if there comes a day to sell it won't be at some top it will be 10-20% down and you only sell down at that level because the weight of the evidence is a 45-60% drawdown. Declines that take years to recover from not months. Depending on your time frames even gut wrenching bear markets can just be sat through, accumulate what you can and wait them out.

Sanrith Descartes Sanrith Descartes see above.
 

Zog

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Breaking this support

1646926426261.png

Brings you down to the next support level of
1646926695597.png


1646926478517.png


Edit: technically there is a support level I missed but still...
 

Sanrith Descartes

Von Clippowicz
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Bear markets happen as a natural part of the cycle. I could be mistaken but I think he was speaking in a more general market way and not a "its coming any day" sort of thing. The market right now is a perfect storm of shit. Inflation, a shitty Fed, a shitty Congress, a shitty WH, a shooting war in Bumfucked Eastern Europe/Asia, The list is endless. I honestly see months of this downward sideways movement on the horizon. It is where we are right now with everything I just listed fueling it.

Janet Powell should immediately raise the overnight funds rate to about 10-12%. That would absolutely fuck the government's unquenchable hunger for borrowing but Powell shouldn't care about that. Sadly, he is a WH puppet and not an independent chairman. Look at the historical data and see where are 9% inflation rate puts us and what the Fed lending rate was. Now look at our Fed funding rate.

1646927284790.png
 
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Borzak

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The WH, in writing, blamed inflation on Russia. That 5%+ rate we had a month before the Ukraine debacle doesn't count apparently.
edit: I should have added this is the WH ignoring inflation and having zero interest in fighting it. Its them saying "its not our fault, so deal with it and blame the other guy". This is really shitty news for the markets.


Cost of goods hasn't been increasing. Value of the dollar has been dropping. Or something like that.
 

Aldarion

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Inflation is at 8% so what are you going to do, sit on cash and watch it get obliterated by inflation?
What I don't understand about this position is, its certainly true long term but inflation doesnt cut 20-50% of your value overnight, while in theory a market crash can. Why not pull back for a short period when things are shit? Seems like a minor loss for a large benefit (if done at the right time) or a minor loss for no benefit (if done at the wrong time).

Not arguing, just trying to understand the position.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

Von Clippowicz
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What I don't understand about this position is, its certainly true long term but inflation doesnt cut 20-50% of your value overnight, while in theory a market crash can. Why not pull back for a short period when things are shit? Seems like a minor loss for a large benefit (if done at the right time) or a minor loss for no benefit (if done at the wrong time).

Not arguing, just trying to understand the position.
The difference is inflation is a realized impact on your cash. It's doesn't grow and shit costs more money so it in effect has less realized value over time. A market "crash" is only realized if you sell. Assuming it goes back up you don't actually "lose" anything. Everyone invested who rode out the Coronachan crash instead of selling and sitting in cash made out like bandits. Even with the last two months of downturn.
 
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Captain Suave

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Seems like a minor loss for a large benefit (if done at the right time) or a minor loss for no benefit (if done at the wrong time).
"If done at the right time" is the trick, and I think you're mistaken on the second half of this statement. Yes, perfectly timing the market can theoretically result in amazing returns. But badly timing the market, even if you exit appropriately early, can work out very badly. Missing the bottom is easy, and getting back in on the way up isn't nearly as simple as it sounds. Remember that if you just ride out the crash yes, you took the hit, but you're 100% invested at the trough. If you cash out and miss the ramp-up, which can happen VERY quickly a la 2020, you can end up WAY behind.
 
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