Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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Why is infinite stupid? We're still experiencing it through the lens of humans, so the true facts of infinity don't really get in the way. It's really just pedantic ackshually arguments.
Invincible
- Thread starter Harshaw
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Why is infinite stupid? We're still experiencing it through the lens of humans, so the true facts of infinity don't really get in the way. It's really just pedantic ackshually arguments.
Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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Burns
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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So why do so many of these alternate universes have humans in them? Either they do or they don't, 50/50 coinflip. How the fuck is it that all these alternates happen to have humans? I'm really trying to understand what you're saying but it's not making any sense.
Furry
WoW Office
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Asking humans to think about things like infinity and probabilities when assessing character threats is definitely stupid. Most people are too stupid too, and even the ones that aren’t are probably rusty enough to get it wrong. Multiverses will always be a thing for dumb fun only, which inherently makes them awful for main plot devices for a series.
Lot of you are way overthinking this.
Even if there are an infinite number of universes, the context here is that we're only talking about universes specifically where Angstrom Levy has gone. So it's only maybe a few hundred to a few thousand at most. It is in the majority of THOSE universes where Mark teamed up with his father. Angstrom wouldn't have bothered to go to universes where earth was just a lifeless rock, or the physics of atoms are completely different, and even if he did, it wouldn't be worth mentioning those universes to the Mauler brothers in that conversation.
Even if there are an infinite number of universes, the context here is that we're only talking about universes specifically where Angstrom Levy has gone. So it's only maybe a few hundred to a few thousand at most. It is in the majority of THOSE universes where Mark teamed up with his father. Angstrom wouldn't have bothered to go to universes where earth was just a lifeless rock, or the physics of atoms are completely different, and even if he did, it wouldn't be worth mentioning those universes to the Mauler brothers in that conversation.
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Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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Aldarion was saying they need to limit the infinite to make it not-stupid.
I'm saying, if our human experience is inherently limited, what the fuck is the difference? Seems it's just pedantry among nerds.
Aldarion
Egg Nazi
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Theres a lot of reasons.
Its stupid to think that every event that has more than one possible outcome leads to a branch point, most decisions and events just don't fucking matter. the butterfly effect is discussed because its a thing that can happen sometimes, not because its a thing that inevitably happens all the time.
Its stupid because it completely removes all the stakes. Nothing matters. Somebody died? Theres another copy out there exactly like him in every way except he prefers a different color toothbrush. Actually a very large supply of them, in case the backup dies too.
Less relevant to the story, but maybe what bugs me most, is that it assumes theres no fundamental logic to the multiverse. Cause and effect, logic, and rationality go right out the fucking window. A = B but also A!=B. X leads to Y but also X never leads to Y.
The people who propose infinite worlds need to spend some time with Fra Orolo talking about nerve gas farting pink dragons. It would make a lot more sense to propose a finite set of worlds defined by sensible worldtracks that can actually occur. One universe where Peter Parker got bitten by a spider on the field trip and another one where he didnt, because both of those are events that make sense based on the properties of the universe up until that point. But not a universe where he spontaneously polymorphed into a hippopotamus on the way to the field trip.
In an infinite multiverse youd find that alternative along with a huge supply of equally ridiculous alternatives.
Its dumb. It tries to reduce the whole interesting concept down to a retarded Rule 34 For Reality.
Void
Experiencer
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How confident are you that they will get rid of a strong black female love interest because it happened in the comics vs. them changing it to keep her around because diversity? I've been praying that it happens every fucking episode, and maybe it will, but I'm not going to bet on it in this day and age.
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Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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Yeah I get all of that, I'm not a fan of multiverse nonsense.
But you said if only they'd limit the infinity, it'd be better. I'm trying to say, since our experience is human, it's inherently limited. You guys are just jumping when they use the word "infinite" when functionally it's the same fucking thing. Infinite or limited, our experience of it is the exact same. Just because supposedly it's technically infinite doesn't matter at all.
Furry
WoW Office
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Butterfly effect is just a bunch of retardation anyways. Should be renamed the coincidences and people will blame anything and everything as an excuse for their fuck ups effect.
Burns
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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We are not talking about all verses in the multiverse, only a subsection of them. In this subsection there is a binary choice. Either Mark sides with his father and subjugates the earth, or he doesn't. Both occur the same amount of times, which is an infinite amount of times.
If you wanted to talk about the total amount of multiverses then the number would be unfathomably small, but still equal because we would still ultimately be talking about a binary choice.
So the filter tree (don't know what else to call it) would look a bit like this, with each tier getting more focused:
1. All possible combinations of atoms in the universe have their own verse
└2. All verses that were hospitable to life
|
We are only talking about step 7. Now, obviously, you could fill in 1000's of more steps if you wanted, but it wouldn't change that we are only talking about a single choice.
Edit: forum wont let me format the list how I want, meh
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Goatface
Avatar of War Slayer
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would think kirkman learned a lesson about getting rid of characters in comic vs on a show from the walking dead collapse.
Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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So the fundamental disagreement is that you're saying all infinities are equal, and I am saying that's not true.
There are infinite planets in our universe. Would you say that there are infinite planets in our universe without humans, and infinite planets in our universe WITH humans?
Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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I think your concept of infinity is erroneous. The universe is infinite (supposedly). But within that infinite universe there are not infinite planets without humans, there are *some ratio* of planets within that infinite universe without humans. Likewise for planets with humans.
These are not the same thing. The infinite universe is not the same as the "infinite" number of planets without humans. One is truly infinite, the other is some ratio below 100% *within* infinite.
Burns
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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No, by you asking that question, it is clear that we are talking about two different things, but I don't know how to explain it any other way.
Goatface
Avatar of War Slayer
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my thinking
(no branch ends, and not all branches shown, a infinite number of points before this branch starts. each point could represent 1000's of forks.)
any of the branches after omniman comes to earth could have a mark, with a teamup or not. all the other ones don't matter.
levy would have to have the ability to know this
even with infinity the amount of universes, mark/omniman would been limited, unless time travel
Hatorade
A nice asshole.
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Void
Experiencer
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Sweet Baby Jesus I hope you are right. That will be the happiest moment of the series for me. It would make sense because of the whole Eve story they need to get into, otherwise why even keep her around, but man, that black girl power scares me.
Burns
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Ok, so again, we are only talking about the chance that Mark helped his father subjugate earth because that is what started this whole conversation. All the other different arrangement of atoms that make up totally unconnected universe, where Mark did not have to make that choice, do not mater.
First you started at the wrong point, the first 2 branches would be the choice of Mark helping his father or not. This is because, in the multiverse, there are infinite amount of universes where Nolan comes to earth, and infinite amount of universes where he doesn't. Adding those two options does not change the fact that, when given the choice, Mark either chose to help Nolan or he does not and because both result in an infinite amount of outcomes, they happen an equal amount of times.
I couldn't find that exact picture, so here is a different one:
A = The moment before the choice.
B = Mark helping his father subjugate earth
C = Mark not helping his father subjugate earth
D to ∞ = all the different arrangement of atoms after the choice was made, each reside in their own Universe (that are not connected and do not affect to each other)