JL: The Flashpoint Paradox.

Gavinrad_sl said:

So in the comic version of Flashpoint, do they actually show the Joker? I would have loved to have seen more exposition about Martha Wayne becoming the Joker, if what the movie was hinting at was what actually ended up happening.

*edit*

Nevermind, wikipedia answered my question.

Spoiler

In the alternate universe of Flashpoint, Martha Wayne becomes the Joker after Bruce is shot by Joe Chill as a child. Unable to cope with her loss she cuts open her cheeks to create a faux smile. She is the arch-nemesis of the Batman of this universe, her husband Thomas Wayne. She is shown to be in league with the possible Harley Quinn of this timeline called Yo-Yo. She kidnaps the children of Harvey Dent and disguises his daughter as the Joker. She kills James Gordon after he wounds the daughter. Batman arrives to face her. Thomas confronts Martha about Bruce's death. He reveals that he has a way to rewrite history, they will die but Bruce will live. When Martha realizes Bruce will still become Batman, she flees in horror. She falls to her death in the caverns below Wayne Manor

Flashpoint is not a happy story, rofl

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yes, go read it.

Knight of Vengeance.

ShakyJake_sl said:

The movie was pretty darn violent. Seeing Wonder Woman behead Aquaman's wife and kill a child was disturbing.

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Well, Mera was about to attack her, even if it was a bit extreme. Killing Billy Batson was really fucked up though. The whole movie was fucked up, I liked it, but fuck.

Caliane_sl said:

yes, go read it.

Knight of Vengeance.

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Is it available as a graphic novel/compendium? I'm a bit too lazy to track down a bunch of individual comics.

Gavinrad_sl said:

Well, Mera was about to attack her, even if it was a bit extreme. Killing Billy Batson was really fucked up though. The whole movie was fucked up, I liked it, but fuck.

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I liked the movie better than the comics. I was salty over the crossover, because they told us beforehand that it would lead into another retcon/reboot of the entire universe. As far as the violence, I had to keep my kids' eyes covered after the first decapitation. My seven year old daughter's favorite hero is Wonder Woman, and she couldn't understand why Wonder Woman was going around killing people. This is not a movie for young kids, whether it says DC or not.

Thank for posting this Nester. I grabbed it from Amazon and liked it.

Also teared it up with Bruce.

Yeah, the knowledge that your mother would become a child killing psychopath and a mirror of your greatest foe had you died instead of her is hard to take.

(I wouldn't have told him either)

Nester_sl said:

Batman: Rise of the Dark Knight (part 1 and 2, watch in one sitting) & JL DOOM, if you like GL, i enjoyed First Flight, this is how the Live action one should have gone.

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Not a GL fan but I enjoyed First Flight.

Is Rise of the Dark Knight just Dark Knight Returns animated?

Yeah I think he's referring to Dark Knight Returns Parts I and II.

this was pretty fucking crazy. i only recognized about half of the characters. what i knew was from watching episodes of Superfirends as a kid and the live action shazaam, batman, wonder woman flash and arrow shows.

was that dr manhattan as the WMD?

I think it's Captain Atom. Only because everytime I see him he rips his suit and accidentally almost kills everyone.

I also lol'd at

It was Captain Atom. Dr Manhattan is based on Captain Atom in the same way that Rorschach was based on The Question and Nite Owl was based on Blue Beetle.

I heard it was Captain Atom.

i just remembered something. do all DC superhero origin stories revolve around one or 2 of their parents dying horribly?

Its pretty common yes. in both DC and marvel.
And really funny, when its retconned in.


WW originally was formed from clay. Hippolyta the demigod amazon queen wanted a baby, and sculpted one of out of clay, while daydreaming. The gods gifted her by giving life to the baby, and blessing her with various gifts.
Nu52, Hippolyta fucked Zeus. Zeus is now missing, presumed dead. Hera hates all her husbands lovers, so visits Hippolyta, turns all the Amazons into snakes, and Hippolyta into a statue.
WW now has two dead parents.

Superman has 3 dead parents.
Robins all have 2 dead parents.
Mary/Billy Batson have 2 dead parents.
Peter parker has 3 dead parents.
Start making a list, and yeah, would probably be like 85% or more have dead parents.

Batwoman, living dad, who is very supportive. Dead(not really) twin sister.


Its mostly lazy storytelling. its easy drama and conflict. And the other issue is support for your character. If your character has a network of family and friends to support them, it can be really easy to fall back on them too much. Killing parents, forces the character to out there alone.

in the movie, Flash's mother is murdered by a mystery man and it controls his destiny because he wished he had gotten home faster.

arrow, was a rich frat boy til he and his dad get shipwrecked and the dad kills himself so his son may live.

batman, dead parents

i assume these origins have dead parents because these comics were aimed at young boys and it made them realize how devastated their lives would be if they lost their mom and/or dad.

Fantastic movie. Definitely not a kid's flick (<10yo) unless they can handle superheroes murdering random people, rofl. Definitely one of my favorite animated supers videos.

Yeah, I never got into comics nearly as much as some of the people on this forum, but I can really dig these alternate reality stories - the ability of it all being reversed by the end of the issue/arc/movie and the freedom they get in regards to killing off main characters - hell yeah.

it's a lot harder to write for a character that is very simply, altruistic without having that character be boring. the interesting story arc is one where a character survives tragedy. there's plenty of characters that haven't had any significant deaths prior to becoming a hero... but unless you just really hammer home their own personal tragedy they end up like superman. boyscouts that are increasingly difficult to make interesting.

if i remember correctly, none of the green lanterns have had any significant deaths? maybe hal but i don't really know his pre-GL days very well. i mean, they've all had issues to get over but no deaths. right?

but yes... it's an incredibly common theme.. i mean even Red Tornado has had to deal with his "father's" death.