Last Epoch

Caeden

Caeden

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I’m 50/50 on no trade. I am afraid it will turn into d3. But it also might end up more like poe mashed with grim dawn. People need to accept that int gear will drop for your barbarian or whatever.

When I last played it was pretty hard to finish a project and bricking an item happened fast.
 
Hateyou

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Caeden said:
I’m 50/50 on no trade. I am afraid it will turn into d3. But it also might end up more like poe mashed with grim dawn. People need to accept that int gear will drop for your barbarian or whatever.

When I last played it was pretty hard to finish a project and bricking an item happened fast.
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That may have been the early iteration. They reworked how it works and it’s pretty forgiving now. I felt like it was pretty solid now, and I usually hate any rng crafting. They give enough ways to mitigate RNG that it doesn’t feel brutal like POE.
 
Caeden

Caeden

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Hateyou said:
That may have been the early iteration. They reworked how it works and it’s pretty forgiving now. I felt like it was pretty solid now, and I usually hate any rng crafting. They give enough ways to mitigate RNG that it doesn’t feel brutal like POE.
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Yeah. It was definitely earlier. I did craft some on the first dungeon patch but the build I messed with then was trash.
 
Hekotat

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Hateyou said:
The crafting system in this game lets you replace the INT with STR though doesn’t it? Been a while since I last played.
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yes that is correct, there are ways to remove/replace/add what you like but you can only do it so many times.
 
Hekotat

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I think they've refined it some since this video but this explains the basics of the system.

 
Nirgon

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Caeden said:
I’m 50/50 on no trade. I am afraid it will turn into d3. But it also might end up more like poe mashed with grim dawn. People need to accept that int gear will drop for your barbarian or whatever.

When I last played it was pretty hard to finish a project and bricking an item happened fast.
Click to expand...

I don't remember people on Diablo 2 having a melter because a viper magi dropped for their barb. The "old internet" was a wonderful thing.
 
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Captain Suave

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Nirgon said:
I don't remember people on Diablo 2 having a melter because a viper magi dropped for their barb. The "old internet" was a wonderful thing.
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Unexpected drops encourage trying different classes/builds (at least if the itemization is good and drop rate high enough). I don't mind that at all. I'd rather have that than trading. Trading never feels as rewarding as getting the gear yourself.
 
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Fogel

Fogel

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I like both. While its great finding that new item that blows your other shit away, trading exists for when your build/gear is almost complete but you need that one item with an exact set/amount of stats to finish it off, but would take god knows how long to farm for and you may never see it due to the specific conditions and RNG. I didn't do a whole lot of trading with PoE but it was nice to have available, especially if you got lucky on exalt/currency drops.
 
Caeden

Caeden

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Captain Suave said:
Unexpected drops encourage trying different classes/builds (at least if the itemization is good and drop rate high enough). I don't mind that at all. I'd rather have that than trading. Trading never feels as rewarding as getting the gear yourself.
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This is where I am. Given I pined for a version of PoE that was more balanced around SSF for a person with about 3 hours a night to play, this feels like it’s close to that. You can’t have this crafting power and trade IMO. And it always feels better to farm or find your next build anyway.
 
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Caeden

Caeden

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Nirgon said:
I don't remember people on Diablo 2 having a melter because a viper magi dropped for their barb. The "old internet" was a wonderful thing.
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I seem to recall rerolling a lot based on what I found. But I didn’t trade a lot either.
 
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Captain Suave

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Fogel said:
you need that one item with an exact set/amount of stats to finish it off, but would take god knows how long to farm for and you may never see it due to the specific conditions and RNG.
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I feel like RNG on top of that level of specificity in item requirement is bad game design. It's false longevity by pushing players into an obnoxious economic metagame. I'd much rather have higher drop rates and have it possible for a single player to "win". It's ok if a game doesn't offer 10,000 hours of experience.
 
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OU Ariakas

OU Ariakas

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Caeden said:
I’m 50/50 on no trade. I am afraid it will turn into d3. But it also might end up more like poe mashed with grim dawn. People need to accept that int gear will drop for your barbarian or whatever.

When I last played it was pretty hard to finish a project and bricking an item happened fast.
Click to expand...

It is not about acceptance of caster gear dropping for a melee character, it is the problem with time investment. I am not a person that enjoys replaying a campaign over and over just to try different builds; I like playing one build and refining it to the nth degree. I also have less free time available to play games. Why would I play a game that has rewards structured that I could drop the most powerful item in the game but if it doesn't fit my build it might as well be a level 1 white item? In D2, POE, and the WoW/D3 auction houses I was able to turn that time investment rewards into something tangible for me. I'm sure there is no hard data on it, but if you look at previous comments from Blizzard and GGG about the average gamer I would suspect the vast majority are more like me and less likely to make a second character, much less a 3rd or 4th. I have said in the past that I respect the decisions by these companies to make their game with their vision; but don't be surprised when people start dropping it because the time investment feels bad.
 
OU Ariakas

OU Ariakas

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Caeden said:
This is where I am. Given I pined for a version of PoE that was more balanced around SSF for a person with about 3 hours a night to play, this feels like it’s close to that. You can’t have this crafting power and trade IMO. And it always feels better to farm or find your next build anyway.
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Yes you can. These games are not competitive; there is no reward for being OP other than that you can clear the game faster and letting your players feel powerful is something that makes them play longer. Many many POE players, myself included, talk about the staying in the league that Harvest crafting went core longer than any other time... and trading LESS because they empowered players with choice. You could take an item that looked decent and make it great with no trading involved, but it took time. They balanced this by making the reward for that time worth it. I never crafted more than that league and when they started talking about how people were becoming too powerful in their non-competitive game it made me wonder how many of them really play their own game.
 
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Caeden

Caeden

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I get where you’re coming from, but it also sounds like you don’t like arpgs. I’m probably still stuck a bit too much in D2 and some parts PoE. If they have items rhar swap int for str, then I’m all about letting shit drop. I like finding a cool item that jumpstarts a character. D3 the jumpstart was getting boosted. PoE was either finding something or blowing your stash on the shit via trade.
 
Mr Creed

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I don't see trade as a benefit at this point, so this puts the game back on my radar.
 
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Kirun

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OU Ariakas said:
Well now I wish I never bought this game. Without some sort of auction house or trading interface this just becomes D3 since people are going to complain when they drop INT items on a STR build character and vice-versa. I don't understand how these retarded studios don't just realize that not everything needs to be tradeable; simply let people put crafting mats/supplies on an AH or trade bot and make them hunt for good bases. Fucking hell.
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It's so frustrating reading that. I can't fucking stand devs with the approach of, "Players don't know how they should play!! WE know how they should play!!!".

If somebody wants to SSF, they have the option to not use the bazaar. If a player wants to non-stop farm the "optimal" area for crafting currency, who the fuck cares? If someone wants to non-stop farm a boss that drops a specific set of rares that are valuable/coveted, why should I give a shit? That whole "explanation" read as, "We know better!!".
 
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Captain Suave

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Kirun said:
It's so frustrating reading that. I can't fucking stand devs with the approach of, "Players don't know how they should play!! WE know how they should play!!!".

If somebody wants to SSF, they have the option to not use the bazaar. If a player wants to non-stop farm the "optimal" area for crafting currency, who the fuck cares? If someone wants to non-stop farm a boss that drops a specific set of rares that are valuable/coveted, why should I give a shit? That whole "explanation" read as, "We know better!!".
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The trouble is, the experiences are some what mutually exclusive. It's hard to have a game that allows both SSF and min/maxing, trading players to have a comparable experience. You basically end up with balance points where either SSF players effectiveley never get to attain certain items, or the trading economy trivializes the game.

Between the two, I'd rather have the latter. As you say, you can always just not take the easier path. As someone who hasn't yet enjoyed the trading metagame, I'd rather not be funnled into it.
 
Kirun

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Captain Suave said:
It's hard to have a game that allows both SSF and min/maxing, trading players to have a comparable experience.
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Why should they be comparable? They're totally different activities/ways to play the game. Why does fucking EVERYTHING have to be homogenized and "samey" in video games. It doesn't, play the game the way that gives YOU, as an individual player, the best experience. This is especially true in a non-competitive game like an ARPG.
 
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Captain Suave

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Kirun said:
Why should they be comparable? They're totally different activities/ways to play the game. Why does fucking EVERYTHING have to be homogenized and "samey" in video games. It doesn't, play the game the way that gives YOU, as an individual player, the best experience. This is especially true in a non-competitive game like an ARPG.
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I don't mean comparable as in identical, just that the game content should be realistically achievable regardless of how you play it. In most of the popular ARPGs so far the SSF players face a fairly stiff penalty by comparison because the progress rate/endgame is balanced around a trading economy.
 
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