League Of Legends

Arbitrary · Oct 15, 2013

The basic meta, the one we see in solo queue, is the way it is because it it gives the best return for the lowest coordination. Everything else is rationalization after the fact.

Ravishing · Oct 15, 2013

Arbitrary_sl said:
The basic meta, the one we see in solo queue, is the way it is because it it gives the best return for the lowest coordination. Everything else is rationalization after the fact.

So what's your point?

Best return for lowest coordination = most efficient.
Solo Queue evolved into this meta due to the efficiency of it.

Does it really matter if players had a rational explanation for doing it before or after? Fact is it evolved to be this way and has proven to be the most efficient method with plenty of data to back it up. Maybe players didn't care about buffs or dragon control at the time, perhaps it was an unconscious benefit unrealized until later on or perhaps players just found themselves winning more often with this setup. With hundreds of millions of games played it will be true that most players just conform to the standard without thinking about the details.

Maybe there were a top echelon of players that conceived this and were simply copied by the masses, thus birthing the meta. I don't think it matters whether the rationalization is before or after, simple fact is it has been proven time and again to be the most efficient setup.

lindz · Oct 15, 2013

Team builder just announced. Guess they gave up on trying to not enforce the meta.
Introducing Team Builder - League of Legends Community

Ravishing · Oct 15, 2013

Read the red posts. Seems like a nice solution. It's going to be a new queue at first, so won't affect ranked right away. I like the ideas though.

As I interpret it: Every team has a captain that will setup the lanes/archetypes. You can either create a team and be the captain or you can just search for teams. You search for teams after choosing what champion you want to play. After queuing with your champion you'll be presented with a list of teams that have openings for your champion.

So a captain could theoretically choose to have a duo bruiser bot lane , no jungler, duo ap top lane and an ADC solo mid laner... If you choose to fill one of those slots the captain of the team will see what champion you're bringing & what slot you wish to fill, he then must agree for you to join the team.

Seems like the perfect queue to create some really different builds/setups.

Edit:statuskwoh comments on Introducing Team Builder - Role Queue is coming!

Captain can define what positions & roles he is looking for. For example "Jungle - Assassin" or "Mid Lane - Bruiser" and then the team will be offered players who have queued as a champion for that role/position composition. A player could queue saying "I want to play Vi as a Bruiser in the Mid Lane" and would get matched with the team looking for "Bruiser - Mid Lane". That team can then say Yes or No to that depending on whether they feel like Vi fits what they were looking for.

Once you are accepted onto a team, you are all in a chat lobby together and the game will not start until you all hit "Ready." Without the time pressure, we're hoping it will be very easy for you and the team to cooperate and figure out how you guys want to play the game together.

Captain can kick in extreme situations where you can't come to consensus. That player can also choose to leave that team and be matched with a new one.

Arbitrary · Oct 15, 2013

Fawe_sl said:
So what's your point?

If the same question was asked at a different period in the game's history you would have all kinds of reasons for why things were the way they were at that moment regardless of whether or not they were true.

lindz_sl said:
Team builder just announced. Guess they gave up on trying to not enforce the meta.
Introducing Team Builder - League of Legends Community

I've been for something along the lines of queuing for role forever. This is going to be its own separate queue so it's going to be a long time before anything like it trickles down to ranked but maybe some day.

Mures · Oct 15, 2013

lindz_sl said:
Team builder just announced. Guess they gave up on trying to not enforce the meta.
Introducing Team Builder - League of Legends Community

Enforcing the meta is the most ridiculous argument I've heard against role que. The meta is already enforced whether you like it or not. Do ANYTHING slightly out of the current "meta" and you will be ridiculed and reported. Every game is solo top/jungler/mid/duo bot, the community enforces this, not RIOT. As others have stated before if you want to try something different, pull some friends together and form your own team. But I'm glad a team captain will be able to compose his team however he wants so now role que is doing the exact opposite of what you and others said it would do. And guess what, besides maybe some sillyness the first few weeks I bet you 99% of teams in this new que method will be solo top/jungler/mid/adc+support bot and once again it won't be riot enforcing it.

lindz · Oct 15, 2013

It is only for blind pick normals right now, will be interesting to see how they implement it for ranked. Anything to cut down on the trolls though imo.

Ravishing · Oct 15, 2013

Arbitrary_sl said:
If the same question was asked at a different period in the game's history you would have all kinds of reasons for why things were the way they were at that moment regardless of whether or not they were true.

What you're saying makes no sense.

gunther_sl · Oct 15, 2013

Fawe_sl said:
So what's your point?

Best return for lowest coordination = most efficient.
Solo Queue evolved into this meta due to the efficiency of it.

Does it really matter if players had a rational explanation for doing it before or after? Fact is it evolved to be this way and has proven to be the most efficient method with plenty of data to back it up. Maybe players didn't care about buffs or dragon control at the time, perhaps it was an unconscious benefit unrealized until later on or perhaps players just found themselves winning more often with this setup. With hundreds of millions of games played it will be true that most players just conform to the standard without thinking about the details.

Maybe there were a top echelon of players that conceived this and were simply copied by the masses, thus birthing the meta. I don't think it matters whether the rationalization is before or after, simple fact is it has been proven time and again to be the most efficient setup.

Just because it's most efficient given low coordination among people who haven't played together and can only communicate through chat doesn't mean you wouldn't have a more effective team using a different composition of heroes with people you know who you can communicate with via vent or skype. Just because it evolved this way among teams with low coordination doesn't mean with better communication and coordination you couldn't compose a better, more effective team (poor coordination not being a factor in this case). Coordination, communication and team composition are like choosing the champion that is the best fit for the player given the champions potential and the skill of the player.

Ravishing · Oct 15, 2013

gunther_sl said:
Just because it's most efficient given low coordination among people who haven't played together and can only communicate through chat doesn't mean you wouldn't have a more effective team using a different composition of heroes with people you know who you can communicate with via vent or skype.

I know.

Fawe_sl said:
There's many more reasons for why the lanes are the way they are. It is the most efficient setup but doesn't mean it is the only way to setup. Pro teams can do it a little different because they have the coordination and build specifics in mind when changing it up. To stray from the common lane matchups requires a tailored build.

Buffylol · Oct 15, 2013

They aren't enforcing a meta, the team building allows for 5 mid or 2 jungle or whatever you can imagine. Reading is hard.

drtyrm · Oct 15, 2013

So this Team Builder queue would have no ban phase correct?

Arbitrary · Oct 15, 2013

buffylol_sl said:
They aren't enforcing a meta, the team building allows for 5 mid or 2 jungle or whatever you can imagine. Reading is hard.

Yeah, it is basically Custom Game Plus.

Commander Vimeseh_sl · Oct 15, 2013

I'm pretty boring and probably won't use this mode to its fullest potential, but it will be nice to have a dedicated place where you always get the role and character you want so that you can practice with them. I dislike playing normals but its the only place to go if I want to practice a lane/role/champ unless a couple buddies are around to run some customs. It gets even more frustrating when you pull multiple 3-4 man premades in a row or just get shitty luck and sit at last pick so you can't even practice what you wanted to in the first place.

Arbitrary · Oct 15, 2013

The entire game needs more incentives for the rank and file players to play in an organized environment and not dumb-as-fuck solo queue. If this starts to move things in that direction than great.

Ravishing · Oct 15, 2013

I'm sure they plan to tweak this and eventually implement it for ranked & normals. Its smart to do it as a separate queue for now until its perfected.

Brahma · Oct 15, 2013

Started playing ranked. How many games I need before I find out what elo or whatever it's called I am in?

Arbitrary · Oct 15, 2013

Hundreds.

Xalara · Oct 15, 2013

10 games until you see a number, hundreds to see where you should be.

Brahma · Oct 15, 2013

Just got Silver 1...whatever that means. Guess I don't suck, but nowhere near good!

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