League Of Legends

I thought Relic shield line only works with basic attacks? Oh wait, the Execute and the gold proc are seperated. Oooh.

Edit:
Time for double mid.

The execution only procs on basic attacks. If you kill a minion with anything else it still uses a charge and gives the gold

Amzin_sl said:

Heavy presence junglers seem nerfed overall, their ganks start later and unless you farm jungle like a madman you'd get more gold doing the 1-2-2 or whatever comp. Farming junglers on the other hand can make bank now so that's new.

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I am having a hard time not building Elder Lizard every game. As long as your team isn't getting curb stomped, it is now one of the most cost efficient items in the game. Completely ignoring the extra 10 gold from large monsters, +40 gold on every champion kill or assist is so damn good.

Some cost efficiency maths:

Longsword = 1 AD / 36 gold
BF Sword = 1 AD / 34.4 gold
Stacked BT = 1 AD / 32 gold

To compare Elder Lizard's efficiency its much easier if you just look at auto attacks. Abilities that scale off AD aren't going to benefit from the passive nearly as much as an auto-attack heavy champ like Jax, Vi, Noc, Udyr, etc.

Elder Lizard just had its damage nerfed ( 30 AD down from 35 AD) but its passive got beefed up quite a bit in the early levels (16-50 up from 7-40). Just considering the flat AD we have:

Elder Lizard = 1 AD / 66 gold

BUT, if you consider the passive true damage* (since we are considering auto-attack champs)

Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 43 gold @ level 1
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 34.4 gold @ level 6
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 25 gold @ level 18 (!!!)

So ignoring it's affect on ability scaling (including crits), Elder Lizard is exactly as efficient as a BF sword at level 6, which is usually when it is bought. But at level 18, it is more efficient than BT for auto-attack damage (typing this shit out makes me want to start buying it on ranged ad carries).

But the NEW passive that gives 40 on champion kills or assists is what makes this interesting:

Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 25.0 gold @ level 18 (0 = kills + assists)
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 24.5 gold @ level 18 (1 = kills + assists)
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 24.0 gold @ level 18 (2 = kills + assists)
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 23.5 gold @ level 18 (3 = kills + assists)
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 23.0 gold @ level 18 (4 = kills + assists)
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 22.5 gold @ level 18 (5 = kills + assists)
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 22.0 gold @ level 18 (6 = kills + assists)
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 21.5 gold @ level 18 (7 = kills + assists)
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 21.0 gold @ level 18 (8 = kills + assists)
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 20.5 gold @ level 18 (9 = kills + assists)
Elder Lizard = 1 AD* / 20.0 gold @ level 18 (10 = kills + assists)

TLDR
Elder Lizard is a sleeper OP snowball item.

The problem is the proc doesn't really work that well on champs that autoattack a lot, because it doesn't stack and doesn't do on-hit damage like Wit's End (unless it insta-tics, not sure). So each time you hit them while it's still affecting them you're reducing the gold efficiency of the item. That makes it ok for Vi or Jarvan (who is going to be punching lots of different champs and disrupting the fight) but terrible for Jax or TryndaJunglemere (who will jump on someone and hit them 2 times a second until one of them dies).

Amzin_sl said:

lol nevermind, Targon's wins. If you kill more than one minion at a time with a stack up, if gives gold for all those minions. AoE double lane comps goooo.

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Holy crap. Well that needs an immediate fix.

Wouldn't that only be an extra 50 gold per minute or so assuming you can pull off the aoe bonus on every creep in every wave? Still agree it probably shouldn't work like that but I can't see it being insanely broken either...

Edit: I think the far more important things to be addressed would include Evelynn being a mandatory ban now, Teemo shrooms getting a buff due to the vision changes, Akali getting a buff for the same reason (so much for pinking mid lane so she can't harass you from her invis cloud) etc.

Akali actually suffers from people having sweeper. Anyone can have an on-demand shroud counter for all-ins now. Considering shroud is what let her win some early fights I don't see her doing so well.

50 extra gold per minute is basically double what it's already giving, which is already enough to change the layout of the game. For a melee with Hydra or AE mages laning with someone, it can easily be 2-3+ minions per creep wave or the whole wave if you really try.

Yeah I noticed that bug last night when top lane with a Garen. Trying to convince people in silver to do the new meta is like pulling teeth so I just pick OP jungles and carry that way.

Draegan_sl said:

How does frost work on Heimer Turrets or Zyra plants?

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Frost gives good AP that is the main reason I took it over the others as my other build items had enough CDR to cap me out so getting one of the other trinkets would have been redundant CDR. The turrets get any on hit effect like the slow from the staff or things like that but it only applies to the laser beam attack not the standard auto attacks of the turrets. So that kind of thing helps but pretty minor. I got frostfang mostly for the good gold production and it had a better mix of stats for what I was aiming for.

Amzin_sl said:

Akali actually suffers from people having sweeper. Anyone can have an on-demand shroud counter for all-ins now. Considering shroud is what let her win some early fights I don't see her doing so well.

50 extra gold per minute is basically double what it's already giving, which is already enough to change the layout of the game. For a melee with Hydra or AE mages laning with someone, it can easily be 2-3+ minions per creep wave or the whole wave if you really try.

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I was wondering about that if you see a stealther is on the other team the sweeper really does help out especially for the short duration stealths like monkey boy or akali where you know he has to be close so the small aoe of the sweeper is not a problem.

kaid_sl said:

Frost gives good AP that is the main reason I took it over the others as my other build items had enough CDR to cap me out so getting one of the other trinkets would have been redundant CDR. The turrets get any on hit effect like the slow from the staff or things like that but it only applies to the laser beam attack not the standard auto attacks of the turrets. So that kind of thing helps but pretty minor. I got frostfang mostly for the good gold production and it had a better mix of stats for what I was aiming for.

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I meant for the gold generated by the spell. Do the turrets/plants proc that?

Plants will because plants proc goddamn everything. Heimer turrets do with their skillshot charged nuke only.

The awesome continues as I go bottom and get a kass who feeds mid and a lee sin who lost top to a nasus so hard that nasus had +500 at 28 minutes.

500 at 30 isn't unheard of. That's just a good player.

I think its auto attacks only or at least thats what it seemed. That said I had little problem flipping wrenches at people for a pile of sweet sweet gold.

No crying about 'trolls' in the most game changing patch I can personally remember. People are trying new shit, and the game is unbalanced. Deal with it.

Draegan_sl said:

500 at 30 isn't unheard of. That's just a good player.

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That's a good player against a bad player considering Lee Sin should dominate Nasus if he knows how to play in the slightest. 500 at 28 is beyond freefarm, it's fed.