League Of Legends

Sidian

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,279
7
I'm convinced with a few changes Swain could be really excellent as a tank but they are forthcoming. Game needs more spell vamp though and he would become a magical Mundo. Unfortunately in a world where Shyvanna exists, he will be outclassed in the top lane and there are so many better picks mid. DFG->E->Q->W->Ignite will still wreck face with Lhiandrys and Rylais. Game needs more pimp cane.
Haven't thought of Swain for a long time, but would DFG > E or E > DFG be better? Last I knew, E actually made DFG stronger as well. I'm thinking E into DFG would be better since DFG also does the % damage, so that would be amplified by the E as well? (I think that's how it works) Not sure though, haven't touched Swain in months. Too early and too many numbers so I can't think. I'm sure Fawe or someone will come in here and tell me what's better.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
7,386
16
Haven't thought of Swain for a long time, but would DFG > E or E > DFG be better? Last I knew, E actually made DFG stronger as well. I'm thinking E into DFG would be better since DFG also does the % damage, so that would be amplified by the E as well? (I think that's how it works) Not sure though, haven't touched Swain in months. Too early and too many numbers so I can't think. I'm sure Fawe or someone will come in here and tell me what's better.
You always push E first with Swain.
 

Plaid_sl

shitlord
230
0
I'll have to play more Viktor to get a better feel for him. But I think maxing his W might be worth something to play with as a Support and zone the fuck out of your lane.
Maxing a high CD CC ability is awesome when you never miss. I don't think it's practical since you're pretty much screwed if it's missed.
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
14,730
31,802
I'll have to play more Viktor to get a better feel for him. But I think maxing his W might be worth something to play with as a Support and zone the fuck out of your lane.
Augmenting W does enable some great plays but it's a question of opportunity cost. It allows you to place the gravity field more safely and from some rather clutch locations, like say on top of the dragon from behind the wall, or smack in the middle of the top tower in dominion from behind the lower wall. However, of all the augments going W leaves you the most vulnerable as you lose the escaping speed boost from Q, and the finishing/burst power from E. The ONLY time I'll go Augment W is if my team is filled with melees that can create an effective front line to protect my ass, and can totally capitalize on the added CC. Say for instance a team like Riven, Jax, Jinx, and Talon. Most of the time in Dominion though (which I play the most) it's a team like Nid, Fizz, Talon, Xin, and Sona and going Augment Q for the crazy mobility is clutch--you need to be able to keep your distance from Fizz/Talon or you get 'gibbed. The rest of the time for your average comp or one with a lot of squishies, I'll go Augment E as late game you can two shot squishies from a mile away.

Anyways, I highly recommend him as he's tons of fun and extremely rewarding when played well. A well timed W, followed by E+R and getting an instant triple as 3 champs explode like blood sausages just feels amazing.

Pro tip: Vik can fire his laser while moving. Becoming good with that technique makes a huge difference in performance. Also, though W is a great DIS-engage and escape tool, you have to be a lot more careful using it to engage or zone, even with augment W. Your best zoning tool is your E, particularly if it's augmented. With a ring to start and rushing augment E, you can one shot minion waves after your first back if you are mid in SR.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Maxing a high CD CC ability is awesome when you never miss. I don't think it's practical since you're pretty much screwed if it's missed.
Which is probably why people don't use him at all. Annie's is instant and so much easier to hit and control. Annie is so much better in almost every regard. The only thing Viktor has over annie is his long distance poke with his E. It's extended ranged is like 1k+ or something.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Augmenting W does enable some great plays but it's a question of opportunity cost. It allows you to place the gravity field more safely and from some rather clutch locations, like say on top of the dragon from behind the wall, or smack in the middle of the top tower in dominion from behind the lower wall. However, of all the augments going W leaves you the most vulnerable as you lose the escaping speed boost from Q, and the finishing/burst power from E. The ONLY time I'll go Augment W is if my team is filled with melees that can create an effective front line to protect my ass, and can totally capitalize on the added CC. Say for instance a team like Riven, Jax, Jinx, and Talon. Most of the time in Dominion though (which I play the most) it's a team like Nid, Fizz, Talon, Xin, and Sona and going Augment Q for the crazy mobility is clutch--you need to be able to keep your distance from Fizz/Talon or you get 'gibbed. The rest of the time for your average comp or one with a lot of squishies, I'll go Augment E as late game you can two shot squishies from a mile away.

Anyways, I highly recommend him as he's tons of fun and extremely rewarding when played well. A well timed W, followed by E+R and getting an instant triple as 3 champs explode like blood sausages just feels amazing.

Pro tip: Vik can fire his laser while moving. Becoming good with that technique makes a huge difference in performance. Also, though W is a great DIS-engage and escape tool, you have to be a lot more careful using it to engage or zone, even with augment W. Your best zoning tool is your E, particularly if it's augmented. With a ring to start and rushing augment E, you can one shot minion waves after your first back if you are mid in SR.
Yeah but dominion.
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
14,730
31,802
Yeah but dominion.
The examples are all as equally valid in SR as well--he's considered a worse pick in Dominion than he is in SR. You still choose his augment (and hence his playstyle) based on enemy comp. Personally I think his CC is better than Annie's-- hits more people more often, forces them to move/flee or else get stunned (and a lot of the time they get stunned anyways-- effectively double cc), and is available whenever it's on cooldown unlike Annie where you have to keep track of spell count. Vik's W FORCES flashes and dashes. What makes Annie a "generally" better choice is that she's faceroll easy to play and you don't have to worry about a skillshot laser-- it's very difficult to whiff her combo, while whiffing Vik's ULT because Ezreal just blinked a split second before makes Baby Jesus sad.

Give him a try with Augment Q, then if you become really good with his laser try out Augment E. Either way I think he's an amazing mid as soon as you get a mana engine going.

Oh ya, did I mention Augment E with the Creator Vik skin? Makes his laser look like something shot from the Death Star.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Which is why that skin is the best skin.

Annie has better CC because it's pretty easy to keep track of when you're stun is up. You have a pretty noticeable buff icon and you also have a visual swirly on your character. Also the AOE stun from Tibers is crazy and instant every 60 secs minus CDR. Not only that, your W AOE stun is amazing as well if Tibers is down. The only pro to Viktor's W is it's augmented ranged which is 812 vs 625.

Viktor's alt is an AOE silence and damage dealer, but also applies Rylais which is a bonus.

What really makes her great is her E that allows her to survive. Viktor's Q shield is trash. 104 + 26% AP plus travel time? Pfft.
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
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31,802
Which is why that skin is the best skin.

Annie has better CC because it's pretty easy to keep track of when you're stun is up. You have a pretty noticeable buff icon and you also have a visual swirly on your character. Also the AOE stun from Tibers is crazy and instant every 60 secs minus CDR. Not only that, your W AOE stun is amazing as well if Tibers is down. The only pro to Viktor's W is it's augmented ranged which is 812 vs 625.

Viktor's alt is an AOE silence and damage dealer, but also applies Rylais which is a bonus.

What really makes her great is her E that allows her to survive. Viktor's Q shield is trash. 104 + 26% AP plus travel time? Pfft.
Just give him a try a few times with Aug Q and see what you think.. I thought he was trash when I first picked him up but now I consistently place first place across both teams in damage dealt to champs by FAR. A few other things too that I forgot-- his laser grants vision at insane ranges which is great utility and his ULT is perfect at shitting on channeled ULT's like Kat and Nunu. He's got a lot of subtle interactions and plays that aren't immediately apparent, like dropping his W into the center of Pantheons ULT
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Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
The only thing on the augmented Q is 30% movement speed that is really useful for him. The 6hp5 is useless. I just don't see where having 30% mvoement speed for 3s every 5s is making up for range on your W + mana regen and CDR or extra AP and damage on your E.

It's not cost effective at all in my opinion. I can only see that helping Viktor during the laning phase to avoid ganks.
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
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The only thing on the augmented Q is 30% movement speed that is really useful for him. The 6hp5 is useless. I just don't see where having 30% mvoement speed for 3s every 5s is making up for range on your W + mana regen and CDR or extra AP and damage on your E.

It's not cost effective at all in my opinion. I can only see that helping Viktor during the laning phase to avoid ganks.
Because that 3s 30% speed boost combined with the fact that he can use E while moving is godly.. Nobody can catch you,nobody can escape you, and while they are trying you are melting them, all while moving.. You can even use your Q against minions to help close the gap with fleeing champs to mow them down with your laser..
 

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
7,966
7,192
Augmented Q on Viktor is permanent ghost, I don't understand how you can't see the awesome in that. He becomes like the most trolly motherfucker in the game with Q and a bit of CDR.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
I'm not disagree that it can be a great combo in specific situations, but overall, I think the utility of extra W range or extra damage on E is much more useful throughout the whole game. I'll have to try it. Might be a decent addition to avoid ganks, or set up a bruiser kind of mage build with max CDR and having it up every 3.6s. Not sure how that makes you any better than other classes.
 
2,122
3
I've always wanted to like Viktor, but I mean even Urgot had his time in the sun that caused nerfs. Viktor has just been this niche champ that you see maybe ten of them every six months and only 1 or 2 do anything but feed. Those 1 or 2 are scary though.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
There was this one time where I played against a viktor that did just that, run away from everyone and beam everyone on the run. It was hilarious.
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
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31,802
Augmented Q on Viktor is permanent ghost, I don't understand how you can't see the awesome in that. He becomes like the most trolly motherfucker in the game with Q and a bit of CDR.
This. Build furor boots, morelliminicon/chalice, rylais, Liandry's, and Spellblade and you're the troll king. 30% movement from Q, 12%(working from memory) from furor boots, plus the slow from Rylais and nothing can catch you, yet they have to otherwise you'll melt their whole team from the back lines.
 

kaid

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,647
1,187
I've always wanted to like Viktor, but I mean even Urgot had his time in the sun that caused nerfs. Viktor has just been this niche champ that you see maybe ten of them every six months and only 1 or 2 do anything but feed. Those 1 or 2 are scary though.
I have had vik in aram a bit lately and once you get him going he can be a real monster damage wise. His death ray hits hard and given you can use it on the run if you get good at targeting it it has some pretty seriously nice range and hits like nidalees spear. If you go for his augmented slow field his death ray still hits really hard and he can now do some hilarious support of stunning/slowing enemy teams. The extra range turns this from a pretty defensive power to a very effective offensive one where you can start dropping it right on peoples heads for a near guaranteed stun.
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
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31,802
I have had vik in aram a bit lately and once you get him going he can be a real monster damage wise. His death ray hits hard and given you can use it on the run if you get good at targeting it it has some pretty seriously nice range and hits like nidalees spear. If you go for his augmented slow field his death ray still hits really hard and he can now do some hilarious support of stunning/slowing enemy teams. The extra range turns this from a pretty defensive power to a very effective offensive one where you can start dropping it right on peoples heads for a near guaranteed stun.
One very interesting thing concerning E for anybody that cares-- the instinct when you start playing Vik is to use his laser in a straight line parallel with the direction you are facing. In other words if you are mid you cast it in a straight line down the middle of the lane at your target, and this is what your opponent naturally expects as well--its the max range scenario. However, you can cast it in any direction you want from its starting point, which means you can shoot diagonally at your opponent, or even from his side. Learning to do this makes it FAR harder for them to dodge it.