League Of Legends

Being locked in a lane decreases his advantages though. His skills would allow him to farm super safely but he barely scales so split pushing is questionable. Plus his "escape" allows enemies to follow him.

I got a chance with Zilean and the good news is that even though the patch notes were not written clearly his Time Warp is either a 99% movement speed debuff on enemies or a 99% movement speed buff on allies. I liked the old 5.5 second duration Time Warp at 55% but this is still very good. His Q doesn't have the good Ziggs Q thing where if you try and throw a bomb outside of max range you throw at max range instead. If you try and throw a bomb too far you just run towards the location that would let you throw a bomb that far. His bombs look good and sound good but the pick up range on them is pretty small. You also can't instantly Q, Rewind, Q anymore even if you have enough CDR or enough ranks in bomb to bring it to 10 seconds or less. If you mash it too fast the second bomb just doesn't come out. Any two bombs on the same unit triggers the stun so you can sometimes miss with a Q, Time Warp yourself, pick up the bomb, run to the enemy, and bomb yourself to set off the AE stun. It lookshilarious.The stun is only 1.5 seconds at rank 5 however. It starts at 1.1 and that's not reflected in the notes. His auto attack is now not garbage which is very appreciated.

The bad news is that his passive is no longer map wide. It's now the size of a large aura. This is not a change that is in the patch notes and I'd rather he just had a completely new passive.

Overall he's much better than I was expecting. I'm hoping Veigar is similarly better than his notes initially read.

I was going to say you're crazy and Veigar's notes read positive and I'm worried he'll be not as good as they read, but you use Veigar as a support more right? Whereas I'm thinking of the changes from a purely mid perspective. The delay on his stun and missing out on any free damage is definitely a bigger negative for supporting with him.

Edit: After watching Stonewall jungle with Bard and reading more on him, I'm sure there will be SOME jungling done with him. I personally don't think it's going to be worth it but time will tell.

250 gold to switch jungle items is the dumbest shit ever.

So one game is not a very big data pool but Veigar just FELT a lot better. Had almost 130 free AP from my Q at 21 minutes in, only had one kill up to that point I believe too. Shortly after that the teamfights started and people got deleted pretty fast.

Amzin_sl said:

So one game is not a very big data pool but Veigar just FELT a lot better. Had almost 130 free AP from my Q at 21 minutes in, only had one kill up to that point I believe too. Shortly after that the teamfights started and people got deleted pretty fast.

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He's dogshit. That stun is so easy to avoid now, I think he's a sitting duck in lane, especially bot. I've yet to see one do well.

Also dogshit: jungling at the moment. I went 11-5-23 and ended up with the 3rd most gold on my team. You just don't get money, no matter how you play. You are always underleveled to the solo laners. The 255 gold price to switch jungle items is just the feces topping on the excrement sundae that is season 5 for junglers.

Unless I'm magically turning poo into gold, Veigar is just better than he was, and people don't know how to play him. I'm still worried about him getting nerfed actually but if everyone else is sucking then hey, maybe more buffs for me!

Edit: Oh yea, bot lane. I already mentioned support Veigar probably not nearly as good now there's at least 4-5 mage supports that were probably better than him at it in the first place and the changes based around midlane farming and DoT teamfights are not really going to mean fuck all for a support.

I was excited about the jungle when they first released the S5 changes but they have succeeded in making it the role people want less than support now. It's just super unfun and super low variety. How could you possibly think nerfing jungle item swapping would hurt strong junglers enough to mean anything but not affect weak ones?

Bring back heart of gold! Then jungle will be fun again. Udyr can have locket too.

Or just give jungle items +gold/5. It's not like laners are going to pick smite just for the income.

We have been hearing for weeks about how there were changes in store for some of the weaker characters that relied on DFG. Ahri got a whole series of buffs right away but Mordekaiser and Veigar would have to wait. Their patch finally shows up and instead of shining up those characters the live team used the opportunity to change a bunch of abilities that have a long standing history of being regarded as problematic. Zilean no longer has click nukes, his passive is no longer mapwide, his ult has a lower duration, Mordekaiser's ultimate is much worse, Veigar's Event Horizon has a delay, etc. Zilean, Morde, and Veigar weren't great characters but they were really unique and every champion in League of Legends has a fan base that loves them. When you tell people positive changes are on the way for some underplayed favorites and you instead take a hatchet to their quirky strengths your players aren't going to be happy with you.

I hate seeing a character's unique kit homogenized and I think that it's especially ridiculous to do what they did with just how hard Riot is pushing the envelope with new characters. Take a look at Rek'sai, Azir, Gnar, Kalista, and Bard. I just see all thiseffort.They look good. They do lots of things. They are unique. There's some power issues (looking at you Yasuo and Thresh) but the team working on new champions is doing a damn good job. The Sion rework wasexcellent.Mordekaiser? You know what, let's fuck his shit up and when we are done we'll go empty our asses all over Event Horizon. Because counterplay. If you want to 100-0 someone with limited interaction you play Lissandra. Do you really need to be told to PvP with a Frost Mage when Ghostcrawler is on the payroll?

Oh, and they dumpstered Kassadin for some reason. Nerfed him, nerfed him again, people still didn't get the hint, so into the dumpster he went while Nidalee runs free with her heterosexual life partner LeBlanc. This is like one of those 2013 Kick Everyone in the Dick patches I used to bitch about. It is almost universally negative while not really doing anything to address the S+ tier mages running around (that now don't even have Kassadin as a threat) or the stagnant jungle. The only way this patch could have been worse would have been if it had a Poppy rework in it where by rework I mean they cut her ultimate duration in half and made her Heroic Charge a skill shot.

You are really chicken littling it up with your complaints about Veig and Zilean.

They might prove to be alright but what was done to them was still a homogenization of their unique strengths in exchange for very little at a time where new champions are pushing the design envelope.

Hemogenization? They changed a couple targetable abilities to skillshots which I'm almost always all for.

Zil's Q-W-Q was a stupid non-interactable mechanic that deserved to be replaced. They gave him a potential stun to compensate for the burst reduction. He's more interesting now.

Zilean's old combo cost almost three times as much mana as most ultimates while also being his only burst option. Even if you mashed it on someone they and their teammates had four seconds to do something about the second bomb. New Zilean has less range on his W, less auto attack range, his passive is no longer map wide, his ultimate doesn't last as long, and he does less damage. He's been flattened out with very little gained in return.

Arbitrary_sl said:

Zilean's old combo cost almost three times as much mana as most ultimates while also being his only burst option.

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I don't understand, you are agreeing it was a stupid mechanic?

It was non-interactive in that your opponents had four seconds before the second bomb detonated to do something.

Do you just have a problem with abilities where you mouse over someone, push a button, and it does a thing? League's got a bunch of that and on better champions than Zilean. You know, shit like Frost Tomb or Assault and Battery or Foxfire or Sigil of Malice or Pyromania.

Not as a rule, Zilean's was just particularly stupid in that it was 2 abilities for a straight damage effect that had no interaction or skill involvement whatsoever. Half the ones you listed create an interaction with your champion and I think all but one of them are Ultimates...?

I'm not arguing whether or not Zilean got buffed or nerfed, but you said that he was hemogenized which made no sense.