League Of Legends

The Ancient_sl said:

Not as a rule, Zilean's was just particularly stupid in that it was 2 abilities for a straight damage effect that had no interaction or skill involvement whatsoever. Half the ones you listed create an interaction with your champion and I think all but one of them are Ultimates...?

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Yes. Foxfire, Sigil of Malice, and Pyromania are ultimates. Other ultimates include Terrify, Reckoning, Dazzle, Rune Prison, Whimsy, and Parrlay.

Again, you keep saying no interaction. Q E Q only detonates the first bomb. The second bomb still takes four seconds to cook off. That's a whole bunch of time to act for your target and their teammates.

It's press button do damage, that's it. It wasn't a good skillset from an interest standpoint and the fact that you are arguing that its removal is a step towards homogenization is baffling.

"Let's just make everything a skill shot" combined with nerfing his passive from global to an aura around him and nerfing the duration of his ultimate in exchange for things like two base armor and an auto attack that isn't garbage is a homogenization of his kit. It's the same shit with Veigar. Make his primary nuke a skill shot and then nerf his ultimate and add a delay to his Event Horizon in exchange for slightly reduced cooldowns and slightly reduced mana costs. It's just a flattening of the character. They could still prove decent but I don't like the direction the live team went and I find it especially ridiculous when new champions are pushing the design envelope as hard as they are. I really like how different Gnar, Kalista, Bard, Azir, and Rek'sai all are. They are dripping with effort. They aren't safe, phoned in champions.

Making Zilean's passive an aura and his bombs skillshots and nerfing Event Horizon is just so much phoned in wank. It's like someone found a dusty list of shit to nerf in Morello's desk from 2012.

Flattening of Veiger's character? His character was land your E and mash all your buttons. There isn't less character to be had. Your argument is terrible.

Zilean's passive an aura is something that was basically announced a year ago when they publicly stated they wanted rid of all global passives. They already did it to Janna and TF. You are right, it's really stupid now, and hopefully they come up with something better to replace it at some point.

Veigar, Zilean, and Mordekaiser were characters that had some really big and unique strengths but some equally large deficiencies to go with them. Rather than go the harder route of preserving those strengths while improving those characters and still maintaining balance they wussed out and hammered them down in exchange for some minor buffs. I only started calling it flattening because Ancient kept misspelling homogenize.

Right now it looks to me like they all lost more than they gained.

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Fawe_sl said:

I think Zilean is in a much better spot but his passive is garbage.

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With his current win rates and pick rates he's got nowhere to go but up.

Veigar's Q is so much more interesting and better now. Point-and-click seemed to make sense but you could miss CS and waste the CD/mana, you couldn't check fog of war with it, you couldn't poke with it, and you damn sure couldn't get as much AP as you can now with it. They actually enhanced his unique mechanic of permanent AP gains for farming. It's only homogenizing if you call skill shots the default state of the game. There's still plenty of click->do-a-thing abilities even on new champions, if they reverted Veigar's Q to a click spell I could make the argument that they're homogenizing it that direction too.

This patch WAS awful. The Morde changes shouldn't have gone out, they were like 10% of a more complete rework they had on PBE and they just scrapped all but that 10% and rolled it out. It makes no sense and obviously makes no sense. Human error for sure. Same with the ongoing jungle changes - they are obviously making the jungle worse and worse of a role and less and less diverse and they can't seem to pull out of the nosedive. This basically happens every season but it feels super lopsided right now and it's even more offensive for the fact that IT HAPPENS EVERY SEASON. Jungling is the most dynamic and complicated "laning" in the game and it feels like they dedicate the same or less resources to figuring it out as everything else.

The Veigar changes are the only thing I would consider a positive and an actual smart change in the patch and I'm clearly in the minority there, although I stand by it. The only change I'd like to see is the Horizon delay go closer to .5 than .75. Fawe, you don't want the diameter to be bigger, it would actually be a slight buff to make it slightly smaller so they can't dodge around in it as much. If they don't get caught when it pops up it's effectively a slightly bigger Jarvan ult from range. On a 14 second CD with no CDR at max level and a buffed casting range. I love the damn thing even still. If they DO get caught in the stun it's just better than cataclysm

I have to be missing something here, what the hell was so unique about veigar? I viewed him as a shittier version of LB (due to no mobility). So I really don't understand what there was to preserve.

^ I know he said his AP gain from farming but meh as far as I am concerned if that is what we are considering his unique mechanic.

His uniqueness was mostly just quirky mageyness from being old. His stun was and is unique, his farming mechanic is essentially the same as Nasus' but it's AP and the longer range/skillshot/double hit potential now change it up a bit. His ult is interesting in that it also scales with enemy AP. His W has always actually been his most "modern" skill because it always had a huge damage amount with a delay to offset it. They actually buffed the drop speed and CD and mana costs on that to boot.

He wasn't unique in the same way Thresh, Bard, and Rek'Sai are unique. And that is part of the complaint Arbitrary has - they did minor tweaks that homogenize or modernize Veigar without actually making him more unique. I disagree but it's a very opinionated topic. Sion got a full-ass revamp and at this point Mord and Zilean probably deserve it as well, but instead they kind of got slapped sideways with a dismissive fish.

Zac is going to be so good with the cinderhulk + E buff.

Man, when you have spoilers off on the LolEsports site why does't it hide the teams updated wins and losses? Nothing worse than clicking on the game to watch it and seeing their W/L ratio in real time.

Gilgamel_sl said:

Zac is going to be so playable with the cinderhulk + E buff.

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FTFY

Shocker, they say they feel Vieger is now under powered and will get an upgrade in his stun.

Fawe, I've been trying to find a mid laner I like and played Diana on a lark. She's a snowball monster on Kat/Akali levels. Super easy farming too. You still spamming games with her?

DISCLAIMER: I am Bronze. My opinions may not reflect your own personal experience.

Rais_sl said:

Shocker, they say they feel Vieger is now under powered and will get an upgrade in his stun.

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They said he MAY be underpowered and a stun tweak is ONE of several possibilities I'll be happy if they buff him for a month until they nerf him again

So now they took CDR off the tank jungle enchantment. Where the fuck do non-manawhore junglers get their CDR? 10% from your MR item(locket, visage, banshee)....and.....uh.......well......I mean who is gonna bu CDR boots when Tabi and Merc treads are so good for tanks? Frozen heart is horribly inefficient if you don't need the mana. I dun get it. I basically need 30% CDR from runes and masteries now when I play Zac. Wut da fuq. Or I can just buy magus+sunfire into efficient tank items and cap out incredibly early.

I hate riot. Put 20% back on Spirit Visage or give us an armor/health item that builds out of Kindlegem.

Veiger and Kass both in like the ~38% winrate range now, almost as bad as Azir.

That T8 vs TIP game was pretty ridiculous.

Just had an ADC literally have an emotional breakdown at 6 minutes, go back to fountain and cry for the entire game. I do not understand people and their mental faculties.