Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
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I agree, seemed like he was being a big pussy.
Also, I could use some upvotes on Reddit if you agree with my stance:http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...rter_duration/
League Of Legends
- Thread starter Dr.Retarded
- Start date
Also, I could use some upvotes on Reddit if you agree with my stance:http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...rter_duration/
Get rid of wards as a purchasable item.
Wards get their own slot like a summoners
Everyone starts off with one ward, 3 minute duration.
When all three outer turrets are destroyed, everyone gets 2 wards, 1.5 minute duration.
When all three inner turrets are destroyed, everyone gets 3 wards, 1 minute duration.
Then you just have to mess with how often wards replenish. Is it when you back? Or do you get a new one every X seconds/minutes.
Done.
Wards get their own slot like a summoners
Everyone starts off with one ward, 3 minute duration.
When all three outer turrets are destroyed, everyone gets 2 wards, 1.5 minute duration.
When all three inner turrets are destroyed, everyone gets 3 wards, 1 minute duration.
Then you just have to mess with how often wards replenish. Is it when you back? Or do you get a new one every X seconds/minutes.
Done.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
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I think I might just cap how many you can have at one time so supports are just unable to start with 4 Sight Wards, 1 Vision Ward, and some pots. The ward system doesn't particularly bother me other than Oracles now not going away after dying. Even with the four minute duration that can be such a bitch.
League is already simplistic enough as far as MOBAs go, it doesn't need to be this brain dead. Wards should still need to be purchased because its making a decision between buying an item that improves your personal power directly or buying an item that will help your team overall with map control. Trade offs are a good thing. You shouldn't also get more of a reward for taking towers (the reward is already huge), and you shouldn't reward the team that lost their towers if when you say everyone you meant both teams. If for some reason wards need to be limited then just make it so that a character or even their team can only buy X wards every Y minutes and then have the shop replenish.
Oracles however does need to be removed in its current form. In pub play it isn't horrible because people are disorganized and you can pick the oracle bearer often enough to be able to keep some ward coverage up. At higher levels though its just two oracle bearers sweeping the map with their teams. When one oracle leaves the other team wards up and it just goes in circles. In my opinion this is the perfect time to introduce a new clicky that actually does what oracles were meant to do originally. Give limited ward clearing but most importantly to give counter play to invis champs. I don't really care if the item gives stats, although it should at least give health similar to sight stone. The important part is the clicky effect. Upon activation you and your team can see invisible units/wards within at least the old oracles radius for six seconds or so. Tinker with the radius or the time visible as needed for balance. What this does is still fills the niche for locking down a vayne/akali/rengar and also allows for some ward clearing. However the short duration on sight and decent cooldown don't let you completely denude an area of wards unless your team is super lucky or you invest in a bunch of pink wards.
Nidhogg
Molten Core Raider
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Nidhogg
Molten Core Raider
- 1,484
- 88
There are no alternatives to the current ward strat unless you adopt 'sight towers' like in strife where to get vision you hold pre determined towers that grant vision while you are near them. If you remove fog then no ganks can happen. If you remove wards people won't push out past their midlanes solo ever which enforces turtle strats.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
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The way to have done something like that would have been to make vision a component of more champions. Cloud 9 often runs Ashe + Zyra and the commentators often talk about how good the combination of Hawkshot is with Zyra's seeds. If there were more good vision oriented abilities among many more champions and you combined that with making purchasable wards a very, very finite resource it could work.
Alright, so your top lane picks a champ with no vision granting abilities. He's going to be pretty vulnerable. Maybe during laning you let him buy the precious few wards that are available. Maybe you pick a vision oriented jungler or support. Maybe you buy vision oriented items or have someone take CV. Now instead of measuring champions based on things like wave clear, kill potential, sustain, and mobility you've got vision thrown in to the mix. There isn't going to be someone with a Sightstone and an oracles and extra wards to boot. Those things are precious.
But that door has long since closed for that on Summoner's Rift. I don't think it is a coincidence that revamped Twisted Treeline, Dominion, and Howling Abyss (all three other maps) do not have wards available for purchase on them. There's a revamp down the way but I suspect it is going to be oriented around stopping one player from being expected to buy Boots 5, Sightstone, Shurelias, wards, and nothing else. In competitive play the support typically starts with only wards and pots. That's a pretty clear indicator something's askew.
If you take out wards completely then basically every jungler become level 6 Vi or Nocturne as far as how well you can defend yourself in lane. Only they become that type of unstoppable gank as soon as they've locked down their red buff. The game would either then have to neuter jungles or that role would simply become the single most dominant force in the game without real counter play. You could never farm safely unless they show themselves in another lane. You can never press an advantage or feel a heavy trade is worth it because you will always be wondering if the jungle is in your trilane/river bush. I don't fancy playing league of gankers very much.
edit: Barring a complete overhaul of design philosophy and a glut of champs that can provide limited vision for themselves as Arbitrary is talking about.
edit 2: For clarity. Having no wards or reliable short term map vision would be like laning with old Eve or Shaco on the enemy team. You effectively just stood near your tower for the first five to eight minutes of the game. If you hate passive play then you don't want a return to those days.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
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- 72,082
Also in regards to jungling I hope very much they fiddle with the numbers again for S4. Being able to do buff + buff, ding 3, gank a level 2 lane (or be in position to counter gank), almost all choice has been removed from the equation. You get your buffs or you take the big risk and invade at an enemy buff. Ganking at level 2 is a pretty terrible idea. Doing any small camps between buffs on the initial clear is also a pretty terrible idea.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
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I would think that would come with some restriction on how many could be purchased by the team at one time or changing wards to be Unique(2) or letting the bonus slot only hold one or something. If you just added a ward only slot and did nothing else any game that went super late would be absolutely retarded as everyone buys five wards and fills the map with them.
Furry
WoW Office
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I really want a bronze 5 account. Anyone here got one. I could elo boost you for free. Alternatively, one of my smurfs is gonna hit 30 next week. Anyone here want to intentionally lose a solid 20 ranked games with me? My win rate is too high if i try to lose solo.
Furry
WoW Office
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I think the comparisons you make are very hard to justify.
Theres absolutely no doubt that it would change the meta, but to say it would turn the meta into everyone tower hugging is silly. People played conservative back then because those champions had such a striking advantage. Now it'd be all champions have this striking advantage, rather than some specific ones. I dont know what it'd do to meta, and anything I could say is pure guess work, but I am certain that it'd make the games in general far more bloody (ala twisted treeline in its original form).
The reality is that the best answer is somewhere in compromise likely. There is a problem with wards, and they do create some dull gameplay, but im not advocating their total anihilation, just hoping for discussion on how to limit their omnipresence at the moment. If you've played at high elo, you'd know just how stupid is with wards everywhere all the time. Games are literally decided based on how you manage your ward system, and it shouldn't be like that.
I agree to a point. I think the current early game ward influence is a good thing and shouldn't be changed. I like having a choice to either be comfortable farming via first buy and early ward coverage or to have a direct advantage over my lane opponent by starting with a dorans or red pot and foregoing the ward. I Wouldn't object to ward limitations in mid to late game, there I can agree that its obscene to have four out of six bushes in your top jungle warded and six ward around baron at the same time.
Put timers on ward recharge in the shop. Insert an item that's kind of like DOTA dust, but shorter duration. Emphasize pink wards a little more. Make pink potion more risky again. Their changes to try and make warding more balanced have failed miserably because they're going about it the wrong way. It's like Riot is scared to nerf wards and instead tries to make them easier to counter, but they are just way too strong. It's like buffing all the AP mids to counter Zed. GG.
Amzin
Lord Nagafen Raider
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If they add a ward slot, then for sure they'll have to add limitations to them. What if each player could only have 2 wards live at a time, AND the wards have reduced sight range? Makes placement more important and mid-late-game shitting 10 wards all over the map should cover about the same as shitting 5-6 out now, say.
fris
Vyemm Raider
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this so much. when i jungle and i see enemy gank before i get my 2nd buff, i leave mine and go for his every time. when i see my jungler take a small camp between buffs, i immediately lose all faith and assume he'll have buffs stolen all game.
i'd like to see some clairvoyance item and remove the spell and oracles. then, another item that increases normal vision range, MAYBE removed fog of war in bushes, and remove wards.