League Of Legends

Khane_sl said:

The barrier to entry is lower yes but that's because way, way more people play professional sports in a competitive capacity than e-sports. But Football doesn't have a farm system. Basketball doesn't either.

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The high school and NCAA qualify as a farm system in regards to this conversation. We're mincing words on the details though, the system by which you become a professional athlete for a conventional sport is noticeably more complex which I think you already admit. You are getting hung up on my usage of "barrier to entry" but I think you are misunderstanding the concept. Barrier to entry is being used to describe how easy it is for someone who qualifies on their own merits as a professional to become one. It's the correct usage of the term, but it's not worth debating it. Let's just agree that for the purposes of this conversation that's what I mean specifically and call it whatever you want.

Khane_sl said:

Look at how often these rosters change

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This is perfect evidence of a system with a low barrier to entry. A high barrier of entry would allow players to become entrenched even if there is better talent just outside the system.

The Ancient_sl said:

The high school and NCAA qualify as a farm system in regards to this conversation. We're mincing words on the details though, the system by which you become a professional athlete for a conventional sport is noticeably more complex which I think you already admit. You are getting hung up on my usage of "barrier to entry" but I think you are misunderstanding the concept. Barrier to entry is being used to describe how easy it is for someone who qualifies on their own merits as a professional to become one. It's the correct usage of the term, but it's not worth debating it. Let's just agree that for the purposes of this conversation that's what I mean specifically and call it whatever you want.

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I never disagreed the barrier to entry was lower. But calling it low, as in anyone can make it to professional status is what you were originally saying. And I just don't agree that it's easy

The Ancient_sl said:

This is perfect evidence of a system with a low barrier to entry. A high barrier of entry would allow players to become entrenched even if there is better talent just outside the system.

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You actually lost me here. When was the last time you saw a professional sports team with the same roster year after year? I think the roster changes have more to do with player controlled team management. Someone gets into a cat fight and kicks a player. Someone gets upset because they underperformed for one game and is allowed to make changes to their own team. The structure needs to change so there are actual coaches and decision makers and the players are just players.

Khane_sl said:

But calling it low, as in anyone can make it to professional status is what you were originally saying.

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No it isn't, you are just failing to understand usage of the term. I could be the most talented Surgeon in the world, but I can't enter into the field of professional medicine over night, it has a fairly high barrier to entry in the form of accreditation. Nothing like that exists for LoL. Again, barrier to entry has nothing to do with what is required to achieve competence and everything to do with what is required of someone who has competence to enter into competition.

Khane_sl said:

You actually lost me here. When was the last time you saw a professional sports team with the same roster year after year? I think the roster changes have more to do with player controlled team management. Someone gets into a cat fight and kicks a player. Someone gets upset because they underperformed for one game and is allowed to make changes to their own team. The structure needs to change so there are actual coaches and decision makers and the players are just players.

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None of this refutes the point.

The Ancient_sl said:

None of this refutes the point.

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I guess if you ignore the fact that professional sports rosters change every year just like the pro gamer team rosters.

Anyway it's obvious arguing with you is like talking to a tree so I'm just going to stop now. I guess you've won.

Khane_sl said:

I guess if you ignore the fact that professional sports rosters change every year just like the pro gamer team rosters.

Anyway it's obvious arguing with you is like talking to a tree so I'm just going to stop now. I guess you've won.

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Well no they don't. LoL roster's cycle much faster which could further illustrate my point. The reason it doesn't refute my point is the fact that NFL rosters change has nothing to do with the barrier to entry into LoL. Did you see my edit regarding the medical profession? It might serve to clarify the misunderstanding you are making.

I'll reiterate once more. Low barrier to entry doesn't mean anyone can be talented enough to do it, it means that someone who is talented enough to do it doesn't have significant obstacles in their path.

Khane_sl said:

You have to be gifted to be a professional video game player and last. Look at how often these rosters change. A 22 year old can't just waltz into an AMA with TSM and say "Dudes I'm gonna be your new mid". What the hell are you guys even talking about? You get to college through raw talent and having that talent get noticed, it isn't any different than having your raw talent noticed by pro gamers as an amateur in Diamond. You're going to have to try out and perform. You might be able to get there sooner because you don't need to physically develop but stop acting like people can just download a game, play it for 3 weeks and turn pro. It doesn't happen that way unless the game is brand new and thus the pro scene is non existent.

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Why would you put the most extreme situation on either side of the example? I never said you could turn pro after downloading the game in 3 weeks. That's ridiculous. We're saying the barrier of entry is a lot lower. Assuming you're good enough to turn pro in LOL, all you really need to do is download the game, get into challenger and you can probably make a case to get picked up by a team at that point.

Football requires a lot more time, dedication, training, money for the average pro NFL player. There are always exceptions, but the average player is playing the game for at least 7 eyars.

Is this even a LoL discussion any longer? I don't even know what points are trying to be made....its going on 4 pages now?

Draegan_sl said:

Why would you put the most extreme situation on either side of the example? I never said you could turn pro after downloading the game in 3 weeks. That's ridiculous. We're saying the barrier of entry is a lot lower. Assuming you're good enough to turn pro in LOL, all you really need to do is download the game, get into challenger and you can probably make a case to get picked up by a team at that point.

Football requires a lot more time, dedication, training, money for the average pro NFL player. There are always exceptions, but the average player is playing the game for at least 7 eyars.

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You started in with the extreme examples, I was counter-pointing. We all agree the barrier to entry is lower for e-sports, but I still wouldn't call it low. We have differing definitions of what a low barrier to entry is, that much is obvious. It seems like we were just arguing semantics and were in violent agreement.

Yes, you're arguing that saying there is a low barrier of entry is equal to stating that everybody is pro material.

I ardently stand behind Riot's decision to forbid LCS players from playing deceased games and streaming the content.

What's next? Corpse fucking tutorials?

Khane_sl said:

You started in with the extreme examples, I was counter-pointing. We all agree the barrier to entry is lower for e-sports, but I still wouldn't call it low. We have differing definitions of what a low barrier to entry is, that much is obvious. It seems like we were just arguing semantics and were in violent agreement.

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Derp.

Arbitrary_sl said:

I ardently stand behind Riot's decision to forbid LCS players from playing deceased games and streaming the content.

What's next? Corpse fucking tutorials?

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They can't allow resurrection of said deceased games because competition is scary!

When will this argument end. I keep checking this thread hoping for some actual LoL discussion and instead we're still going on about this contract bullshit. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sidian_sl said:

When will this argument end. I keep checking this thread hoping for some actual LoL discussion and instead we're still going on about this contract bullshit. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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I was stream hopping earlier and I saw a Malphite being played, then I got a boner. Though Coral Reef > Glacial skin.

Clover malphite is the best if we are being honest with ourselves.

Taric is so damn fun to play right now. My team was down 20 kills and getting rolled, and by the team I got my 6th item I turned into a damn raid boss. My team just rallied around me and we stomped all the way down to their nexus. Smashing AC and stunning and healing the whole way down.

Yes, Taric is a demon now. I play him up top all the time.

Hey, a solution with some effort behind it instead of a retarded headscratcher list. I like how some of the comments from Riot people are about how much time they've spent discussing this issue. That would have been really handy to have put that time inbefore.

Still though, addressing this issue quickly and intelligently is good stuff. Zero complaints about the resolution.

Maybe in their previous discussions they assumed people would react intelligently and with thought.