Legend of Grimrock 2
- Thread starter Disp_sl
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Few things for party creation:
You need 1pt in light weapons/heavy weapons to use specific weapons of that type, and I assume more for the higher level weapons, so you probably want to pick one style and stick to it.
Heavy weapons are str based, Lightweapons are either dex based(daggers) or str based(swords and such). On ranged weapons, throwing weapons are str based, missile weapons like slingshot and bows are dex based, firearms aren't affected by either stats and have flat damage as well as expendable ammunition(missile/throw you can generally get whatever you use back by walking over the tile).
Also firearms can jam, so if you plan on using them, better use a rat since they have a fairly decent chance to not fail, plus leveling the skill reduces it(and at max lvl removes it entirely).
You probably want 1pt alchemy by the time you hit the 2nd zone, to make basic potions. You don't need an alchemist for that, alchemists only get more herbs over time.
Not too sure if there's spells to be found as I haven't experimented that much, but early on I'd avoid water, or only take it if you also take earth, as it seems the only water attack is icicles which uses both earth and water. Earth gets poison, Air gets shock and Fire gets some fire thing as usual. As far as I know you cannot use magic without a magic weapon if you're not a wizard or battlemage, however the first magic weapon isn't available right away and it also requires Concentration(though I'm not sure if that's only to use the bonus energy on it or to cast spells at all), so consider that when taking magic on non casters.
You need 1pt in light weapons/heavy weapons to use specific weapons of that type, and I assume more for the higher level weapons, so you probably want to pick one style and stick to it.
Heavy weapons are str based, Lightweapons are either dex based(daggers) or str based(swords and such). On ranged weapons, throwing weapons are str based, missile weapons like slingshot and bows are dex based, firearms aren't affected by either stats and have flat damage as well as expendable ammunition(missile/throw you can generally get whatever you use back by walking over the tile).
Also firearms can jam, so if you plan on using them, better use a rat since they have a fairly decent chance to not fail, plus leveling the skill reduces it(and at max lvl removes it entirely).
You probably want 1pt alchemy by the time you hit the 2nd zone, to make basic potions. You don't need an alchemist for that, alchemists only get more herbs over time.
Not too sure if there's spells to be found as I haven't experimented that much, but early on I'd avoid water, or only take it if you also take earth, as it seems the only water attack is icicles which uses both earth and water. Earth gets poison, Air gets shock and Fire gets some fire thing as usual. As far as I know you cannot use magic without a magic weapon if you're not a wizard or battlemage, however the first magic weapon isn't available right away and it also requires Concentration(though I'm not sure if that's only to use the bonus energy on it or to cast spells at all), so consider that when taking magic on non casters.
Caliane
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stand in circle, summon. guardian.
Ok, Im all set....
nooooope.
Second go wrecked it though. 2 potions was easy enough.
yeah, made my party fairly similar to last. small changes.
1 Knight for front row. 1 h/shield is the plan.
lizard rogue for front row. focusing on dw/dodge is the plan. Had a dps fighter last time.
My "main" last time was a rogue, in back line. Changed her to alch/firearms here. Well see how that goes. Alch seems like a bit of a sandbag. we'll see. As pyros noted. fire arms have limited ammo, unlike other projectiles you can pick up after the fight. Like any consumable in games like this, you always force yourself to conserve, and never end up using likely. or if you do use, you dont have it when you need it.
Again, we'll see how it pans out. I know my back line rogue carried the team in Grimrock 1.
fire battle mage for last. not sure how constrained points will be here. are we not forced to focus on one element this time?
Weapon swap for sling on the rogue, and throwing daggers on the alch.
I wonder if farmer is pure challenge, or if its the classic fool-unlock sage, when you find the right thing in game. Farmer upgrade to paladin or something.
I also wonder what the mindset for races was? kindof wish there was sprites, halfings, maybe undead and/or construct.
Exp seems to be shared evenly this time around. so equal exp even if the char just sits there.(not sure about dead)
Ok, Im all set....
nooooope.
Second go wrecked it though. 2 potions was easy enough.
yeah, made my party fairly similar to last. small changes.
1 Knight for front row. 1 h/shield is the plan.
lizard rogue for front row. focusing on dw/dodge is the plan. Had a dps fighter last time.
My "main" last time was a rogue, in back line. Changed her to alch/firearms here. Well see how that goes. Alch seems like a bit of a sandbag. we'll see. As pyros noted. fire arms have limited ammo, unlike other projectiles you can pick up after the fight. Like any consumable in games like this, you always force yourself to conserve, and never end up using likely. or if you do use, you dont have it when you need it.
Again, we'll see how it pans out. I know my back line rogue carried the team in Grimrock 1.
fire battle mage for last. not sure how constrained points will be here. are we not forced to focus on one element this time?
Weapon swap for sling on the rogue, and throwing daggers on the alch.
I wonder if farmer is pure challenge, or if its the classic fool-unlock sage, when you find the right thing in game. Farmer upgrade to paladin or something.
I also wonder what the mindset for races was? kindof wish there was sprites, halfings, maybe undead and/or construct.
Exp seems to be shared evenly this time around. so equal exp even if the char just sits there.(not sure about dead)
Lambourne
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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About 3 hours in, really enjoying it so far. Got wrecked at the summon circle as well. Tip in the spoiler:
I like the mix of open world and dungeon, saw some cool and original monsters already as well.
Went with a minotaur barbarian and human rogue in front line, rat alchemist and human wiz in back. Rogue seems to die a lot, might get better with skills.
Some challenging stuff, a few times you get 3-4 packs at the same time which you can't dance your way around. I have ended up in a corner and tanking them one at a time while chugging potions. Might be an intended design although I don't know how I would have done it without alchemy (was making potions during the fight)
Use fire spells on them, they are extra vulnerable to that. You can also swing a torch at them
I like the mix of open world and dungeon, saw some cool and original monsters already as well.
Went with a minotaur barbarian and human rogue in front line, rat alchemist and human wiz in back. Rogue seems to die a lot, might get better with skills.
Some challenging stuff, a few times you get 3-4 packs at the same time which you can't dance your way around. I have ended up in a corner and tanking them one at a time while chugging potions. Might be an intended design although I don't know how I would have done it without alchemy (was making potions during the fight)
Only a few hours in, but I already love this game so much. Having some problems with my rogue in the front line, but hopefully once I get some gear and levels he'll be ok. Went barb/rogue and battlemage/wiz
Caliane
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I'm playing hard. considered ironman, etc. but said no. And after playing, crystals are so far in between, thank god I did. I can't even imagine one time use crystals. or even only save at them. that'd be a massive pita.
My front line is just getting wrecked up till the 3rd grid or so. level 4 or 5? (seems a bit better now.)
Knight and rogue. Even then largely focusing on dodge and armor. Knight's dying just as often. Basically chugging potions, and my 1 mage dealing like 90% of the damage likely, via nuke, run, nuke, run.
Laura
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Didn't we conclude that these games reward ranged parties for 99% of your encounters?
Shoot, back, shoot, dodge, shoot, back...etc?
Because the first time I had a party with a "tank" I ended up having to dodge anyway at some point since monsters end up dealing too much damage and dodging was mandatory (you CANNOT even take one hit). Is this still the same? of course we can't tell until later on the game.
Shoot, back, shoot, dodge, shoot, back...etc?
Because the first time I had a party with a "tank" I ended up having to dodge anyway at some point since monsters end up dealing too much damage and dodging was mandatory (you CANNOT even take one hit). Is this still the same? of course we can't tell until later on the game.
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There's plenty of encounters where you can't dodge though, by design, so if your frontline isn't tanky enough to not die in one hit, you're gonna have a bad time. Knights I don't know though, supposedly their evasion bonus is buggy, though they still get good health per level and protection +1 per level is free mitigation while their dmg should stay relevant due to heavy weapon 5pt making them able to use 2H in their main hand+shield.
One rogue in frontline works ok if you feed him the health books/vit pots so he doesn't get squished, can get decent evasion and dual wield damage so far seems to be better than everything else besides against heavy armored mobs. Could use a barb dualwielding swords though, but I'm not sure it'd end up being better, rogue DW has a 15% bonus dmg and STR scaling seems to add flat damage, guess it depends on the end values and max level. Str seems to add like .75 average dmg per hit(well that's what I read) so assuming your average damage is 100ish in endgame and max level is around lvl 20 like the first one(I think it was), you'd get the same 15% from barb str. They might be fairly similar in practice, but you do need 5light weapons before you can dual wield swords so until then the barb would do less damage for sure, plus you get better daggers early on, or at least I haven't found good str light weapons yet.
One thing so far I'd say is completely worthless is backstab. You basically can't backstab anything but fleeing mobs on hard, they turn too fast and detect you too quickly. In Grimrock1 you could dance around mobs and backstab them repeatedly but in this I don't even know if I ever managed to get in the back of a mob. That said Critical is still good for raw damage output since it's 15%crit chance, but other than that I wouldn't bother.
Also accuracy seems extremely useful. Especially if you make a stupid mino, but even for most other classes that didn't max dex. 1 or 2pt accuracy seems to fix most of the misses, which is a pretty big deal. Minos without dex will tend to miss like 50% of the time or some shit, making them garbage if you don't fix it.
The interesting party I think would be Combat mage x2 in front, Wizard+Rogue in back, with rogue 2pt accuracy for dual wield melee from the back row though pure missile might be just fine too. Combat mages seem surprisingly tanky, you can use Protection(the spell) to increase it very high and if they're wielding a staff or a weapon+caster offhand they get even more. I'm thinking of doing 2x Lizardmen combatmage front line with the trait, can probably reach close to 100% resist all. Also that party is able to all go ranged, since Combat mages can cast spells.
One rogue in frontline works ok if you feed him the health books/vit pots so he doesn't get squished, can get decent evasion and dual wield damage so far seems to be better than everything else besides against heavy armored mobs. Could use a barb dualwielding swords though, but I'm not sure it'd end up being better, rogue DW has a 15% bonus dmg and STR scaling seems to add flat damage, guess it depends on the end values and max level. Str seems to add like .75 average dmg per hit(well that's what I read) so assuming your average damage is 100ish in endgame and max level is around lvl 20 like the first one(I think it was), you'd get the same 15% from barb str. They might be fairly similar in practice, but you do need 5light weapons before you can dual wield swords so until then the barb would do less damage for sure, plus you get better daggers early on, or at least I haven't found good str light weapons yet.
One thing so far I'd say is completely worthless is backstab. You basically can't backstab anything but fleeing mobs on hard, they turn too fast and detect you too quickly. In Grimrock1 you could dance around mobs and backstab them repeatedly but in this I don't even know if I ever managed to get in the back of a mob. That said Critical is still good for raw damage output since it's 15%crit chance, but other than that I wouldn't bother.
Also accuracy seems extremely useful. Especially if you make a stupid mino, but even for most other classes that didn't max dex. 1 or 2pt accuracy seems to fix most of the misses, which is a pretty big deal. Minos without dex will tend to miss like 50% of the time or some shit, making them garbage if you don't fix it.
The interesting party I think would be Combat mage x2 in front, Wizard+Rogue in back, with rogue 2pt accuracy for dual wield melee from the back row though pure missile might be just fine too. Combat mages seem surprisingly tanky, you can use Protection(the spell) to increase it very high and if they're wielding a staff or a weapon+caster offhand they get even more. I'm thinking of doing 2x Lizardmen combatmage front line with the trait, can probably reach close to 100% resist all. Also that party is able to all go ranged, since Combat mages can cast spells.
Caliane
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yeah, my back line combat mage has more hp, armor, evasion, and resists then my rogue and knight..
I imagine it falls behind late game, but out of the gate, its definitely really strong.
That flat +10 protection, and 5% resists. Add protection spell (+25prot)as noted. and yeah. by far strongest tank..
And yeah, knight is supposed to get a 50% evasion boost to shields, but the tooltip clearly does not reflect that. So, may not be working.
I imagine it falls behind late game, but out of the gate, its definitely really strong.
That flat +10 protection, and 5% resists. Add protection spell (+25prot)as noted. and yeah. by far strongest tank..
And yeah, knight is supposed to get a 50% evasion boost to shields, but the tooltip clearly does not reflect that. So, may not be working.
Thats what this game is about , dungeon crawling or overland with this one and puzzles. Fuck i love it , having loads of fun and i really like that some areas cant be done till you do other areas. Loads of fun , cant wait to get deeper in. Although i do hate the crippling effects , happens way to often. Just playing on Normal , but shit happens a lot forcing you to get alchemy.
Yeah I'm loving all the puzzles. I did need to look at 2 spoilers to figure out wtf to do (missed the first dungeon with the horn of summoning, and somehow couldn't find the pressure plate to open the circle where you fight the 4 golems after running around for about an hour), but trying to do as much spoiler free as possible. Been stuck for a while now after I got the 4 orbs and the fireball thing, and not sure how to get through the bog part. Hopefully I'll be able to figure it out soon.
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If you're stuck in a place, you could go in another. Not sure about the bog area I think I went there to check out the place but it had a statue saying the way was sealed and the answer was in the archives so I left to do other stuff. Did find the archives actually so now I "think" I have the answer, though it's some shitty riddle that makes no sense, might make more sense once I go back, but like 2 more areas opened up the opposite way so I'm kinda just clearing shit atm. Game feels fucking huge.
Haven't been stuck too long on any puzzle so far, I did spend way too much time breaking the code for some stuff then finding out there was a scroll with a hint at the end of the area I was in.
Also all the rerolling and shit ended up with me picking a party I really liked, so I'm happy about that, don't feel any of my chars could be better than he is, besides maybe getting better rolls on the +stats for my ratling(he got +str for 5levels even though it's the least useful stat I could have gotten, so yeah).
Yeah thats where i left off , have scroll now just need to figure it out. Was a fun place though , only stumped once with the Path of the Eagle , but quickly smacked myself once i did get it. Feel i will be the same way with the scroll cipher.
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Well the scroll makes it super easy, I figured it based on the 3 coded places(there was one code in the forest early in the game and I had made a map note of it so I could compare), though a bunch of it was trial and error. Path of the Eagle was pretty obvious to me, I did spend like 10mins on the Crossing moving blocks one even though it was so obvious what to do but for some reason my brain was wired the wrong way and I couldn't see a way to activate the switch until I underped.
Caliane
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yeah, Im on bog/island atm. and honestly there have been more then a few places I have seen chests, or paths, with no obvious ways to get to them. I'm not sure if I missed something, or will come back.
Accidentally spoiled the Ar E. Uhu Ko. Ar E. Uhu E. puzzle looking for info on something else though. Dont remember what atm. might have been spells, trying to figure out why fireball and light were not working.
My problem is I had cleared everything I had access to up to that point. I haven't killed those 4 circle guardians yet though (got access to em real late last night and tried the fight 3 or 4 times), so I assume their chest has a key or something to get me into one of the areas I can't get to. I was almost out of food last night too and couldn't see anything that hadn't been cleared until I noticed the one hex with destroyable bushes that leads to the area with all the wargs. Saved my ass and I loaded up on warg steaks like they were beans from DayZ haha.
Those circle guards are tough and I think I'm just gonna have to get lucky + zerg them to death with potions. They can sometimes kill my front line rogue with 1 hit even with like 24 defense/15 evasion, so I keep having to put my battle mage with spell shield in the front line.
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Not sure what circle guards are, unless you mean those earth elems? Didn't have much problem with those, just sat my ass in the entrance so they funelled one by one and killed them super slow since most weapons do shit dmg. I was making potions as the fights went on hehe.
There's a ton of stuff to do to the west though. And I assume some to the north but haven't been there. I actually haven't done the bogs yet and I'm like lvl 9, the west shit keeps going and going. I entered the ruins of desawhatever, cleared that and it was fucking big like 2full maps worth of shit and it led to the sewers and stormbreach, cleared those 2 and now I can go to crystal mines. I've spent like 8hours just clearing that left side shit and I'm not done yet. I did just get the air element thing though so not sure what's in crystal mines, but maybe there's more than 4 orbs per side(since the map shows 3 areas surround sleet island and you need 4 elements, I assumed there would be 4orbs per side and shit).
Game's a lot bigger than I thought it'd be, and a ton more varied than the first one both in terms of area looks and monsters(including their behaviours).
Also finally got invis+backstab, it does work pretty good if you can navigate around mobs. Apparently even side attacks count as backstabs out of invis, but if you're in the back you can attack with both hands before the mob turns usually.
There's a ton of stuff to do to the west though. And I assume some to the north but haven't been there. I actually haven't done the bogs yet and I'm like lvl 9, the west shit keeps going and going. I entered the ruins of desawhatever, cleared that and it was fucking big like 2full maps worth of shit and it led to the sewers and stormbreach, cleared those 2 and now I can go to crystal mines. I've spent like 8hours just clearing that left side shit and I'm not done yet. I did just get the air element thing though so not sure what's in crystal mines, but maybe there's more than 4 orbs per side(since the map shows 3 areas surround sleet island and you need 4 elements, I assumed there would be 4orbs per side and shit).
Game's a lot bigger than I thought it'd be, and a ton more varied than the first one both in terms of area looks and monsters(including their behaviours).
Also finally got invis+backstab, it does work pretty good if you can navigate around mobs. Apparently even side attacks count as backstabs out of invis, but if you're in the back you can attack with both hands before the mob turns usually.