Libertarianism - the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
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You sound creepy with how you casually comment on the deaths of innocent people.
Loser Araysar
Chief Russia Correspondent / Stock Pals CEO
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We are the biggest and most powerful country in the world. We create enemies every single day in the world and we will always have more enemies than friends.
I'm not gonna run back to inside my borders just to appease the feelings of a bunch of backward cave dwellers in Afghanistan. Fuck em, we are winning anyways.
I don't imagine a world where you can exist without enemies unless you are inconsequential. If you matter, you will always have enemies.
I'm not gonna run back to inside my borders just to appease the feelings of a bunch of backward cave dwellers in Afghanistan. Fuck em, we are winning anyways.
I don't imagine a world where you can exist without enemies unless you are inconsequential. If you matter, you will always have enemies.
Tanoomba
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So where do you draw the line? Why not nuke the whole country and say "Sorry, this is war. Innocent people die sometimes."
My point is there is no need to kill these people with drone strikes, not even the intended targets. You're perfectly safe. You are, however, INCREASING your risk by pissing more and more people off.
Show me where I said Canada was squeaky clean. If anybody wants to have a conversation about the many reasons I'd like to shit on Stephen Harper's face, I'm there. (Stephen Harper is the Prime Minister of Canada. "Prime Minister" is the Canadian version of "President".)
fanaskin
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I dunno about toonambda but I'm saying we aren't even acting rationally anymore, this doesn't benefit America.
You aren't benefiting from Halliburton profiteering it's actively hurting you while not enriching you.
this is the aspect of war that is counter to the groups interests,
profits are privatized, losses are socialized.
I would believe in this socialism preaching more if we talked about socializing profit and not just socializing losses.
Tanoomba
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You're not making more enemies because you "matter". You're creating more enemies because you're killing people (most of them innocent civilians) on their own land in what they'd rightly consider to be the most cowardly way possible. But the fact that you consider them "backwards cave dwellers" tells me all I need to know. Basically, that you're a fucking idiot and don't deserve the rights and privileges you take for granted.
TrollfaceDeux
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Loser Araysar
Chief Russia Correspondent / Stock Pals CEO
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Christ, you are so fucking naive. Did they blow up our embassies in 1998 because we were killing their civilians? Did they blow up USS Cole because we were indiscriminately bombing their mud hut shitholes? Did they try to blow up WTC in 1993 because we blew up someone's grandma?
Dont you fucking get it? There will always be new demands, new conditions, new ultimatums. If today their conditions are "stop drone strikes", we can do that. But tomorrow the goal posts shift and its a new set of demands - "stop supporting Israel". Ok, done (as improbable as it is). On 3rd day it will be a new set of demands - "close all your bases" in Arabian peninsula" or "stop supporting Turkey" or "get out of Tajikistan", or "get out of Africa".
OBL said that the reason for 9-11 was our support of Israel. As much as I despise Israel, what it comes down to is that they killed 3,000+ US CIVILIANS because of whom we chose to support monetarily.
It never fucking ends. Why would a country of 300,000,000+ people make it needs subservient to a bunch of fucking cave dwellers? We're smarter than them, we fight better than them, we are winning and most of all we are on the right side of history.
It's like talking to a fucking child who thinks we can all live in some perfect Kumbayah world.
Loser Araysar
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We are a country that executes hundreds, thousands, ten thousands of political, economical and business actions every day in order to serve our self-interest. A lot of the time that comes at the expense of someone else's self-interest. Because of our size, our actions are always influential. Whom we decide to trade with, whom we decide to support, what we choose to do with our currency, what kind of laws we pass, what we do to protect US interests abroad. Our hard power, as well as our soft power, traverses the entire world and we influence EVERYTHING in one way or another.
Nobody gives a shit if Mongolia decided to become someone's ally or releases a movie. Everyone gives shit if WE decided to become someone's ally and they all go see our movies.
TrollfaceDeux
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we should drone NK because obviously they are our enemy.
oh no, we can't.
they can defend themselves.
oh no, we can't.
they can defend themselves.
Tanoomba
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Dude, I'm done with you. You have no respect for human life, so everything you've ever said is worthless. How can we have a reasonable conversation about anything when you don't even understand the value of human life? You're worse than a moron, you're a moron with delusions of grandeur. We're already way off topic (at least according to the title of this thread) so consider me out. Feel free to continue masturbating to your rage fantasies with the rest of the troglodytes who don't understand life.
fanaskin
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We where doing was was killing 100's of thousands of iraqi's from the sanctions we imposed, many people tended not to like that.
it was either the Sadat or Mubarak regime in Egypt where they where given CIA to establish torture chambers sayid torture dissidents, sayid quteb is the guy whose teaching osama bin laden and anwar al zwhahari followed which preached using "shock to awaken the public from the trance that the western nations put people under, qutib came from those torture chambers, we created our own monster.
it doesn't have to come from drones but it's the general idea that those harsh things we do over there makes us enemies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGo1DqmfHjY
Loser Araysar
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Just how much am I supposed to value the life of some toothless hypocrite goat herder who keeps his wife in a burka, lives by a 7th century moral code and occasionally blows up a market or a police station?
Seriously, you make me embarrassed to be a liberal.
fanaskin
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the bombers came from saudi arabia, we invaded iraq and afghanistan, between Russia and America attacking those "worthless wrecthes" for 20 years and they are immoral hypocrites?
Its less jealousy and more resentment. They can't blow up Israel if we're busy supporting it.
Lithose
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lol, you know it's bad when Ary goes full patriot on someone. Jesus Tan, you really do come off as naive. Listen, the fact is that expecting us to fix the problem, while every other western nation floods us with money, and special interests, hoping to keep us on as the world economic anchor is not only silly, it's infuriatingly naive. You don't build a house from the roof down--if you want the U.S. to change, then you need to unplug all the other "free trade" states from the market stabilizing practices that a U.S. military hegemony provides. But that would cut into things like your advanced social programs--so it's just easier to enjoy the fruits of a stable world, while being angry with America.
And yes, I said stable. Argue all you want--but the wars and interventions today cost a great deal less lives, and are a great deal less destructive, than they were before active intervention/trade (Without overt control, sorry Britain, colonialism doesn't count) was the diplomatic policy of the world power(s) (And it's more than the U.S., you think Britain and France aren't out there banging heads?). The U.S., for years, has been acting like any good fire fighter without water--we light smaller, controlled fires to burn away excess fuel and prevent a larger fire later. We are burning away Afghanistan because they had a pretty deadly combination of black market revenue (Opium), weapons (From us, lol), access to regional destabilizing factors (Soldiers from various states) and anti-trade governance, as well as a lack of a good foil or counter in the region (Due to Pakistan's collapse). Our reason for Iraq was far less noble--but it was still in the same vein, we wanted to access another western, trade friendly government to lessen Saudi Arabia's and Iran's sphere of influence and get the entire region more stable--yeah, that kind of blew up in our faces, but that was thegoal.
Now, is what was said above any help or consolation to the thousands that died in South America, Or the middle east, or even the far east? No, not really. But ask people in Africa what it's like to have the U.S. simply not give a flying fuck what they do or have the world unplug from them. Yeah. Our policies, as brutal as they seem, and yes, I agree, they are shitty--are the bridge between backwards and isolated regimes and freely trading states that, while still maybe being assholes, probably don't want to kill everyone because they like the improved lifestyle that comes with trade.
The irony here is that by supporting Paul, you freely admit, like he does, that trade and stable markets prevent wars--it prevents the loss of life. Paul's biggest problem is that he is naive to believe that the benefits of trade will always defeat ideological disposition. Unfortunately, backwards religions and dogmatic old people are a constant threat to our ever increasing, peaceful, trade enterprises--and we kill them. Yes, it's cold to say it like that and yes, sometimes that shit comes back to bite us in the ass, big time--but killing them, thus far, has vastly reduced the number of lives lost and increased the number of partners we trade with (Which, again, if you're a Paul supporter, you believe that brings peace.)
I hope, and I think everyone does, for a day where America disarms and spends that money on it's citizens--that will be a good day. But until trade has penetrated every corner of the world, it's naive to think that way. It WILL happen, but it's not going to happen through a radical shift in America--it's going to happen by a radical shift in America's little legionaries, like Canada--and then, when all of your support is gone and the money and special interests stop piling on the coke and whores for our Senators,thenand only then we will change. That day will come when the ideologues, and zealots are finally dead--and the only people left are the ones who worship the Xbox and love Mcdonalds--and then, people like you will finally fight to break the far less powerful hold the few have over your governments, which will in turn weaken their hold over ours...Then things will change. (Or China will replace us, and we will do to them what gets done to us, now.)
And yes, I said stable. Argue all you want--but the wars and interventions today cost a great deal less lives, and are a great deal less destructive, than they were before active intervention/trade (Without overt control, sorry Britain, colonialism doesn't count) was the diplomatic policy of the world power(s) (And it's more than the U.S., you think Britain and France aren't out there banging heads?). The U.S., for years, has been acting like any good fire fighter without water--we light smaller, controlled fires to burn away excess fuel and prevent a larger fire later. We are burning away Afghanistan because they had a pretty deadly combination of black market revenue (Opium), weapons (From us, lol), access to regional destabilizing factors (Soldiers from various states) and anti-trade governance, as well as a lack of a good foil or counter in the region (Due to Pakistan's collapse). Our reason for Iraq was far less noble--but it was still in the same vein, we wanted to access another western, trade friendly government to lessen Saudi Arabia's and Iran's sphere of influence and get the entire region more stable--yeah, that kind of blew up in our faces, but that was thegoal.
Now, is what was said above any help or consolation to the thousands that died in South America, Or the middle east, or even the far east? No, not really. But ask people in Africa what it's like to have the U.S. simply not give a flying fuck what they do or have the world unplug from them. Yeah. Our policies, as brutal as they seem, and yes, I agree, they are shitty--are the bridge between backwards and isolated regimes and freely trading states that, while still maybe being assholes, probably don't want to kill everyone because they like the improved lifestyle that comes with trade.
The irony here is that by supporting Paul, you freely admit, like he does, that trade and stable markets prevent wars--it prevents the loss of life. Paul's biggest problem is that he is naive to believe that the benefits of trade will always defeat ideological disposition. Unfortunately, backwards religions and dogmatic old people are a constant threat to our ever increasing, peaceful, trade enterprises--and we kill them. Yes, it's cold to say it like that and yes, sometimes that shit comes back to bite us in the ass, big time--but killing them, thus far, has vastly reduced the number of lives lost and increased the number of partners we trade with (Which, again, if you're a Paul supporter, you believe that brings peace.)
I hope, and I think everyone does, for a day where America disarms and spends that money on it's citizens--that will be a good day. But until trade has penetrated every corner of the world, it's naive to think that way. It WILL happen, but it's not going to happen through a radical shift in America--it's going to happen by a radical shift in America's little legionaries, like Canada--and then, when all of your support is gone and the money and special interests stop piling on the coke and whores for our Senators,thenand only then we will change. That day will come when the ideologues, and zealots are finally dead--and the only people left are the ones who worship the Xbox and love Mcdonalds--and then, people like you will finally fight to break the far less powerful hold the few have over your governments, which will in turn weaken their hold over ours...Then things will change. (Or China will replace us, and we will do to them what gets done to us, now.)