Long full disclosure

EDIT: The back story starts here - (click the Thread link in the top right to go to the thread)

Okay, here"s the deal. Shelly is pregnant, and I"m sure now that the baby is mine. The other candidate went to her OB/GYN with her, and through a series of simple questions was eliminated as a potential father. This means that if she and I both somehow manage to do the right thing, she will be a part of my life in one form or another from here on out.

This means difficulty. Her attitude is that either we be together as a couple or we can"t be friends -- her way or the highway. And the issues don"t end there.

The Bad

Someone asked why Shelly and I separated. The fact is, children at Catholic boarding schools have more freedom than I did while living with Shelly. Here are the problems:
  • FoHGuild.org is a "porn site"
  • Seeing a naked woman, even online, even by accident is "cheating"
  • If I speak to a woman, I am cheating
  • If a woman speaks to me, I am cheating
  • If it takes longer than 30 minutes to find a job, I"m cheating.
  • If I get a job, I"ll eventually lose it, so I"m not allowed.
  • If she threatens suicide, uses abusive language, is possessive, is clingy, is jealous, is controlling, then people are to be told that I did those things.
  • If I leave the house, I am "neglecting" her
  • If I don"t want sex, I"m "sexually abusive"
  • If her doctor orders her to not have sex,thishappens.
  • If I use my computer, read a book, or do anything else without being told,thishappens.
  • If I try to break it off with her,thishappens andthis-- all a mix of extreme exaggerations and outright lies.
  • She seems to actuallybelieveher own lies, even when multiple witnesses actually present to see and hear events tell her that she is lying.
  • If I spend two hours with a friend, I have earned two weeks of being screamed at.
  • Weed turns people into thieves and rapists, crack does no harm (she has actually argued this, though she does not drugs and neither do I)
  • If I support Prop 19, I"m a pothead and she"s calling the police.
  • If I accidentally break something, I "break all her stuff".
  • I can not visit my sons, they can not visit me. I can talk to them under her supervision only. I can not buy a web cam to communicate with my nonverbal autistic son. If I break any of these rules, I"m cheating with my ex wife.
  • If she repeatedly tells her ex that her baby is his, while lying to me about it, that"s okay.
  • If she says she will have sex with her ex or "somebody else maybe" if I don"t have sex with her, and after hearing this countless times I tell her that I don"t care, then Iwanther to do it. I"ll be honest. I really don"t care. I stopped caring right about the time I realized how jealous and possessive she is while she has certain double standards because I figured she"ll cheat anyway and I"d rather not care than be jealous. I never honestly wanted her to though, so I hope the sarcasm throughout this list is obvious.
  • If she wants to go some place, I must pay the cab fair. If I want to, then it"s too bad.
  • If I let her slide on $40 of her half of the bills, then I owe her $50.
  • If I tell her to check our budget records to verify that I owe her no money, then I"m stressing her out and it"s my fault she had a placental abruption.
  • Doctors don"t know anything about her syndrome.
  • The National Library of Medicine contains dozens of published, peer reviewed papers about her syndrome and none of them are correct.
  • Given the two items immediately above, if I research her syndrome to prepare for the 50% chance that the baby will have it, then I"m an unfit father and disrespectful to her.
  • Everyone who goes to college is a "know it all".
  • Everyone who uses proper grammar or spelling is a "know it all".
  • Responding to her with negativity is harassment.
  • If I say anything other than "yes ma"am," then I"m stressing her out and trying to kill her baby.
  • If she threatens suicide numerous times with multiple witnesses, it never happened.
  • Blackmail is not illegal for her.
  • Theft is not illegal for her.
  • Harassment is not illegal for her.
  • If she loan sharks to her friends ($200 loan, $1500 pay back) on SSI, it"s not illegal for her.
  • Men created all fine art because they wanted porn. The Sistine Chapel is porn. Every sculpture, painting, and work of literature from the Renaissance Period is porn.
  • If she flirts with men online, it"s okay (despite her rules for me).
  • If she looks at porn, it"s okay (despite her rules for me).
  • If she has almost only male friends, it"s okay (despite her rules for me).
  • If I ask her to, herself, follow the rules she expect me to then I"m controlling.
  • If I tell my side of the story, then I"m psycho.
  • If she replies to every post I make on every website I visit with libel, it is not cyber stalking nor harassment because she is doing it, but if I happen to make a profile on one website she visits, I"m "stalking" her.
  • If she logs into my email accounts, and deletes every email ever sent to me including pictures of my sons, tax records, letters of recommendation, academic research, resumes, receipts, and correspondence with family and friends, it"s okay because a dating website sent me spam.
  • To fix any of these problems, we must simply forget they ever happened so that she can keep doing these things.
  • If I mention any of these problems to any person by any means at any length to any extent, I"m talking shit and that makes me abusive.
  • If she blackmails me with throwing all of my belongings in the trash and getting my ex wife to turn me in for back child support to keep me from seeking work or leaving her, then she supported me and I was a bum who lived off her.
  • It is a man"s duty to pay all the bills, do all the housework, do all of the cleaning, take care of the pets, run all errands, and he must do all of this without expecting contribution from his woman, without letting her spend any time alone, with no friends, without leaving the house for longer than thirty minutes, and without failing to obey any commands she issues.
  • After breaking up, if I reply to a message from a woman on a website with no flirting or hint of romance or sex, I am cheating.
  • It"s my fault if she smokes cigarettes, even if I quit.
  • It"s okay for her to lock me out, but it"s not okay for me to do it to her after asking her to move every day for two months straight, and while she has numerous people to turn to and places to go.
  • If all of my money is tied up in other things or I"m blackmailed into not working (before my SSA was approved) and she pitches in with food, she can deny me the right to eat but I still have to cook for her.
  • She can smoke all of my cigarettes, but if I ask her for one then she can"t support my habit.
In addition to this list, check these out:

Item One

Item Two

Item two makes me wonder if she"s telling the truth now that she says her doctor has ruled the other guy out as a father. So far as my statement about her cheating with David, it would not surprise me and is entirely possible. I"ve heard from two people -- one my friend, the other a former friend of hers -- that there are two other guys who could be the daddy. The names they provided do not match (one said Nick and Brandon, the other said Chris and Jeff). Both have reason to lie about her -- they hate her. One other person who hates her who was a friend at one point backs up her story completely.

She is a master manipulator when it comes to sympathy. After all of this, after getting her to move out, after washing my hands of her, she called me sick from the hospital hardly able to breath and I was immediately sympathetic. How could I not be sympathetic of a pregnant, extremely sick woman who is not being visited in the hospital by anybody? Day one, I was the only one who went, day two her grandparents went, day three her mother and grandmother showed up. So, the impression I had that nobody was visiting -- an impression she encouraged -- was not accurate.

The Good

Now, having said all of this, here"s what I know of in the way of making excuses for her.

Her cousin, to whom she was very close, was shot in the head by her brother when she was young. She has every symptom of PTSD and refuses to seek counseling. Her mother, if she tells the truth about it, was extremely verbally and emotionally abusive to her growing up. Her mother also dated men who abused her in these ways and physically (I don"t think she was abused sexually). She lost her virginity through rape. Her father is a meth addict in and out of jail -- he broke her ribs when she was an infant, abducted her multiple times, and was just barely stopped in the process of giving her meth when she was very young. Her only example of a healthy relationship is her grandparents, who also do not discuss problems or compromise where anyone can see and are not affectionate where anyone can see.

Her first marriage, from which she is still not divorced (April and I are not divorced yet either) was/is with a man who cheated on her with any woman he could manage to sleep with, could not hold a job, and actually did neglect her by leaving her alone for days at a time without even saying what he was up to. Her immediate relationship after that was with a man who she took in off the streets who would not work, and did become abusive when he drank. She left him for me. When she and I met, I had my own apartment and two jobs. According to her friends, she became more extreme between these three relationships such that I am bearing the punishment of their acts.

Shelly is very intelligent. She can do advanced algebra in her head without having ever studied it, ironically enough can discuss complex sociobiological, political (when she cuts the bullshit), and ethical topics in amazingly concise, simple terms with profound accuracy, and learns anything she is taught extremely quickly. None of this is a product of stupidity -- even that would be a weak excuse in her case.

She has also, at one point or another, attempted to correct each and every one of the items in the list above. She never attempted them all at one time, and no attempt was ever successful, but she did try.

She also has an incredibly sweet side unlike any woman I have ever known. I"ve witnessed her feeding the homeless out of pure compassion, babysitting for free to help a couple she did not like, she is affectionate to a fault, and she has a generally good moral code where parenting is concerned (in theory).

The Neutral

There was one day when I was verbally abusive, and I admit it. She was, very much so, as well. The only difference is that I offered her multiple opportunities to handle things in a more civil manner and she refused. That was the day she moved. A friend came over to be a witness to prevent false accusations and to signal me if I was upsetting her too much because she is pregnant. This one day, I behaved in a manner that the most slimey, ill-mannered, evil, venomous troll would be proud of, and I did it with the single purpose of getting her to move out after three months of asking nicely.

The Bottom Lines

Now, my side of this has been posted before. And deleted. And posted. And deleted. Many more screen capped pieces of evidence than I"ve posted have been deleted.

All evidence considered, this baby is likely mine. I would like to be a father to this child. I would even work things out with her, if it were possible, even after all of this. It is not my intention to be mean when I say that she needs counseling, likely meds. Her answer to that is that I"m the crazy one because -- and I admit -- I have bipolar, asperger"s, and schizoaffective secondary to asperger"s (I spent most of the first 25 years of my life in books, video games, etc because I preferred those fake worlds to the real one, and I don"t trust people as a general instinct). I submit that my obvious insanity does not exclude the possibility that she has gone through a unique set of difficulties under unique conditions and could potentially benefit from some assistance dealing with it.

Once I submit this post, it is only a matter of time before she finds it. I guarantee that she will start a shitstorm of drama, and I submit it for your amusement. Ultimately however, I am fully possessed of the will to do the right thing here, but I do not have the patience nor endurance any longer. I never thought I would see the day when I would consider forgetting that I have a child, but the thought has crossed my mind.

Holy Mother of Tomfuckery TL;DR
How to be daddy with crazy as mommy without ending up beat to death by rampaging rednecks or thrown in jail as a result of petty manipulations and lies? We"ve got the good, the bad, and I"ll leave out the ugly.


Riddle me this...
Get definite proof the child is yours. You can demand to see the results.
If the baby is yours as long as your paying child support who gives a fuck about that crazy bitch. I think you can also give up all rights to the baby and not pay child support if done before their born. That I don"t know I"m not a lawyer.

Tell that bitch to fuck off. Again, let me repeat, TELL HER TO FUCK OFF!
Who gives a shit if shes crazy and whiny. You have one go around on this dirt ball and do you really want to spend it having anything to do with that troll?

Or........Continue to try and white knight for the Swamp hag and post it here for amusement. I mean really, I"m a janitor at wal-mart while I"m in school and just thinking about this shit makes my life seem like a triple rainbow experience.


A series of simple questions?


Did you guys have sex 13 Thursdays ago?

Don"t think so.

Guess the baby isn"t yours, congrats!


As much as I want to help all I can come up with is "holy shit" after reading that. I"m really not sure what to say, except that your negatives list is gigantic and your positives is a couple paragraphs, and, well, that speaks for itself.

And yes, get a DNA test. This is a 100% must do.


Good thing you didn"t post this in The Married Guy Thread or you would"ve ruined Aamina"s saga.

Get a DNA test, dude. Then when you find out you"re not the father, don"t bang chicks this hideous ever again. I don"t see what lead your dick in her direction. I feel like vomiting looking at her pictures because I can just imagine her life style. Not showering for days. Greasy, neglected hair. Dust bunnies all over the house in plain view, not even under the couch. Toilet paper roll in the room next to the computer. Macaroni and Cheese encrusted dishes. Furniture that reeks of cigarette smoke. Walmart sweat pants. Panties with shit stains leading all the way to the crotch area.


Avatar of War Slayer
84d 3h 59m
I"m sorry, I got to this week"s performance of The King in Yellow late and have clearly missed Act 1.

You engaged in a reproductive act with this person because?


The preggers convo should have gone like this,

She tells you she is preggers. You say, "Deal with it" and you put on your sunglasses and walk away.

NOTHING is worth those type of cons. & No child should experience that environment! Head for the hills man! Either things must change or you can"t participate in whatever relationship she demands.


Golden Squire
Arbitrary said:
I"m sorry, I got to this week"s performance of The King in Yellow late and have clearly missed Act 1.

You engaged in a reproductive act with this person because?
We"re trying NOT to scare you away from it man, we swear.


My advice.
First : get documented evidence of this, hide camera"s, buy a voice recorder, whatever it takes to catch the crazy.
Second : present the evidence to a lawyer. Get a restraining order, have her declared unfit and possibly put into mental care.
From what you have posted, and if you have substantial evidence, then the courts will rule in your favor. If you don"t like this approach then fake your own death, head to a foreign country, and never look back. All in all you should run, not walk away, as fast as you can. I commend you for trying to be there for the child but if you stay in this situation then we are going to hear about you hanging yourself in a few years or just straight loosing it and going Rambo on an entire city.


Kill her and make it look like a suicide.

My GF"s sister had two kids by some loser. He off"d himself and now she gets $950 a month from social security for each kid. (just short of 23k a year)

They were never married and both worked minimum wage jobs so it is unlikely between them they paid more than $2,000 into social security.
Arbitrary said:
You engaged in a reproductive act with this person because?
I accidentally a pregnant. Her doc doesn"t English too good, and come to find out that when I asked about birth control and he said, "She can not get pregnant," what he meant was, "She must not get pregnant." I found this out yesterday from his own mouth, which explains why, back when this happened, after two more sentences of debate he whipped out a script pad and started scribbling without the benefit of an exam to determine hormone levels. I thought we had won, and he was being careless. Turns out, there was no debate and he was in that much of a hurry to stop her from breeding.

Chips said:
They were never married and both worked minimum wage jobs so it is unlikely between them they paid more than $2,000 into social security.
I worked and fought for years to avoid being on SSA, but knew all along that in the end I would fail. By age 20, I had more paid into the system (three times more) than my dad by age 40. I suffered in the extreme when things went bad and worked like a Hebrew slave when things went well. Folks like that give me a bad name, but at least the kids are well taken care of.
What you need to do is have her read your post... it is basically a letter to her stating EXACTLY how you feel.

If she cant read it with an open mind or is not willing to compromise on this list. Then clearly you need to stay away from her as much as possible as she will only bring misery to your life.

I think it would be interesting for her to actually read this forum post but another option is just to print your post and present it to her.

You only live once, child support for 18 years is better than a life of misery.


What a time to be alive
17d 4h 13m
GaliemVaelant said:
I accidentally a pregnant. Her doc doesn"t English too good, and come to find out that when I asked about birth control and he said, "She can not get pregnant," what he meant was, "She must not get pregnant." I found this out yesterday from his own mouth, .
Can"t you lolsuit this kinda stuff in "merica?



100% serious. There"s thousands upon thousands of sane, quality parents out there begging to adopt.

I can"t see how keeping this child would be a consideration.
Seethe said:
God damn it, get out of my head. I seriously hope he intentionally wrote that.
I did

I could go to court for custody. Just with the evidence on my computer and in my Google Talk transcripts, I would likely win. Add in multiple witnesses who actually saw and heard these things, not on just one day while she was moving out but for eleven months straight... I would win.

The one other thing I may have to sue over is a sure win. She is on the title for my home, with her name under mine. This title was signed after a contract was signed and notarized. The stipulations of the contract were:
  • If I, for any reason, felt that she was making this home unfit for children or disrupting its peace, I could ask her to move.
  • Upon asking her to move in writing or observation of a witness, she had 30 days to move out, an additional 30 to get her belongings, and within an additional 30 her whopping $500 investment would be reimbursed.
  • Upon moving by my request or of her own accord, she would surrender all claims in part or whole to ownership of this home.
  • In the event that she did not move within 30 days of being asked, she would surrender reimbursement of her investment.
The way it went was...
  • I asked her to move in the presence of one witness, and then again on the phone with another.
  • 90 days later she moved.
The contract was signed by myself, her, and a witness, and it was dated and notarized. When she moved, she stole my title. By the time she moved, my copy of the contract was destroyed -- but I got a copy from the notary public. She says I owe her $500. I really hope that she uses the title to go to court. It would be the shortest civil suit in history, and it would end with her in handcuffs.

Child support is no problem whatsoever. I pay $150 a month already for one of my sons (the other has SSI for his autism and is exempt from child support). That $150 will go down to $100 once the whopping $500 in arrears is caught up. I am on SSA, she is on SSI -- the child will receive $86 for each of us, which will wipe out the child support obligation. I can make $9000 per year in wages, which (with the right amount extra paid in), will allow me to pay back in the full amount as it is taken from the system. In tough times and emergencies, it would still be covered.

The only dilemmas for me are that, should she seek counseling, she would likely recover and become a great partner in behavior, responsibility, and personality. Also, I have a belief that every child should know both parents. But I hear y"all about running. I was in the process of doing that when she called me unable to breath or speak and I felt enough sympathy and compassion to go to her.

Zeste: Believe it or not, I did great with my sons. I can handle being a father. I"m on disability because I can"t handle being chewed out and screamed at by random strangers. It has this tendency to lead to me asking if I can choke them a little, which doesn"t bode well for keeping jobs (short explanation here). I don"t have custody of my sons for two reasons: First, when Mary took off with them, she was awarded the car immediately, and I was given a summons for the custody hearing an hour before it started while it was about 109 miles away. I never sued for custody because Mary knows much more than I about autism, which makes her a better parent for Brendon, and I would not want to separate Brendon and Jacob. This child, I could raise and things would be fine. I"d just have to be more careful about women. I"m just not sure I can afford the thousands it takes for a custody suit.