Lost Ark Online

Tide27

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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I'm not seeing how you would want to play LA then, tbh. Other than initial leveling up process, of course. After that the game seems to turn into something far worse than BDO, its just presented in a much more familiar form. You still have to grind for the currency to play the RNG upgrade game. In BDO nothing limits your progress, nothing limits your meaningful playtime aside from you yourself. Reading what has been described here about LA, the games monetization system limits how you play and for how long you play. How is that good?
Preface...I have not played the game.

Having said that, it looks like this is more of an mmoarpg than your typical arpg and thus has group content throughout the whole experience.

Having people encouraged to roll alts and play will ensure a steady player base at all levels, vs every other arpg where it's a mad dash to lvl cap, and then the game begins.

Remove the incentive to roll alts to funnel gear to a main, and all the content pre level cap is completely wasted and any newer players coming in would find the world empty, as people are always on their mains..and leaving the journey to 50 completely void and empty.
 
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Raes

Vyemm Raider
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Wellll, there's not exactly that much incentive to have alts on your main account. The vast majority of your gold income comes from your labor points and your weekly epona bag, and those are account/server shared. You can use alts to do the content that gives you tradable upgrade mats, BUT that requires those alts to be on the same tier of gear as your main, so you'll have to spend gold to upgrade their gear too, which kinda defeats the purpose. (A lot of shit you get is character bound, another issue I have with the game) I do use the alts on my main account for silver farming. There's a quick daily that gives silver, how much is based on your gear score. My lower (400s) GS characters get like 5k, my main get 18.7k. Dailies have the same double bonus mechanic as guardian raids. So, on most of my alts I only do that daily, and get 10k to 37k each per day. They like to give you boxes of silver as login rewards (in RU currently it's like 300k to 500k) which you'd think is a lot, but it isn't. Upgrading your gear costs silver as well as gold, and things like rerolling gems costs silver too. I can easily spend a couple million in a day.

There's no real reason to race to upgrade your gear (engravings are more important anyway). And I avoid the RNG upgrade BS as much as possible by taking breaks. As I mentioned previously, the game gives you catchup items every few months, 100% upgrade chance (and 3 levels at a time instead of 1) and 75% reduced gold cost.

The gold earning isn't even my number one issue with the game, it's just really annoying. My main issue is that, since pretty much all endgame activities are related to it, and therefore limited, you actually can't play the game once you've hit your limits for the day/week. Except for arena pvp.

Guardian raids. Can enter as many times as you want, but only get rewards twice per day.
Chaos dungeon. Enter twice per day.
Test paths (boss rush) and Cube. Require tickets you get as drops in Chaos dungeon.
The rest is once a week dungeons and raids.

There's other shit to do, much of what you need to do if you want all your skill points. But, I don't really consider it "play". It's mostly going to an island, getting a quest, and then running around the world talking to people (ie skipping boring dialogue) or going to some other island that only appears during certain times of the day, or certain days and killing shit for rng drops. That's for "Island Hearts". I need 20 for my skill point pot, after playing since launch I have 11. And they keep adding currency like this, There's Giant Hearts, Orpheus Star, etc etc.

The core endgame loop is basically done after a couple hours per day. This is an area, if you like more than 1 class, where alts can help a bit.

Oh, I almost forgot about the Affinity system. This is how you get certain rewards from story NPCs who are now your friends. You get 5 emotes and 5 songs per day. Playing songs and doing emotes to these NPCs give you Affinity with them. At certain levels of Affinity they will offer you a quest, but in order to accept it you need to have reached certain numbers in these secondary stats (Bravery, Intellect, Kindness and Charm). That's another grind. If you don't have the required stats, you cannot continue to gain affinity with them. Also, while you'll get some songs and emotes through normal leveling, getting many of them will require jumping through more hoops. You don't always need to max affinity with an NPC to get the reward you want, but on the ones you do it can take months. Through events, quests and login rewards you'll get gifts that give a lot of affinity. Save these for the important ones. Runes, skill pots, secondary stat increases etc.

TLDR: Game has a lot of time wasters, but doesn't like to let you actually play the game, unless you PVP in the arena.
 

Valderen

Space Pirate
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The core endgame loop is basically done after a couple hours per day. This is an area, if you like more than 1 class, where alts can help a bit.

This is most likely the thing that will determine how people feel about a lot of the systems and P2W aspect of the game.

As someone who only play a couple of hours a day, it seems the core gameplay loop might be enough to keep me busy on a single character. It will also appear that I won't feel the "gated" stuff since I don't play that much. Sure progression will be slow, but as a casual play with only a few hours a day to dedicate to the game I don't expect to reach the endgame fast anyways.
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
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This is most likely the thing that will determine how people feel about a lot of the systems and P2W aspect of the game.

As someone who only play a couple of hours a day, it seems the core gameplay loop might be enough to keep me busy on a single character. It will also appear that I won't feel the "gated" stuff since I don't play that much. Sure progression will be slow, but as a casual play with only a few hours a day to dedicate to the game I don't expect to reach the endgame fast anyways.

Once you reach level 50, technically you are AT endgame. There's just multiple tiers of "endgame." Although, probably just one tier at NA launch. Every tier has a GS requirement, but there's really not that much difference. Oh, we added some mechanics to this (story) boss that you haven't seen before, that every member of your party must execute perfectly, or everyone dies. (Sorry, I think party one-shot mechanics are lazy design)

There's zero reason to be in a rush to up your gearscore. Your gear is just going to continually be replaced, and, oh fun, when a new tier is introduced it's actually a downgrade. (This is rather complicated and I don't feel like writing another page of shit to explain it unless people really want it.) What's more important is fleshing out your character in ways that are permanent. Getting more skill points and the engraving books that you need.
 

Voldeth

Trakanon Raider
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The gold earning isn't even my number one issue with the game, it's just really annoying. My main issue is that, since pretty much all endgame activities are related to it, and therefore limited, you actually can't play the game once you've hit your limits for the day/week. Except for arena pvp.

Guardian raids. Can enter as many times as you want, but only get rewards twice per day.
Chaos dungeon. Enter twice per day.
Test paths (boss rush) and Cube. Require tickets you get as drops in Chaos dungeon.
The rest is once a week dungeons and raids.

There's other shit to do, much of what you need to do if you want all your skill points. But, I don't really consider it "play". It's mostly going to an island, getting a quest, and then running around the world talking to people (ie skipping boring dialogue) or going to some other island that only appears during certain times of the day, or certain days and killing shit for rng drops. That's for "Island Hearts". I need 20 for my skill point pot, after playing since launch I have 11. And they keep adding currency like this, There's Giant Hearts, Orpheus Star, etc etc.

The core endgame loop is basically done after a couple hours per day. This is an area, if you like more than 1 class, where alts can help a bit.

This is where we fundamentally disagree (well, moreso that I'm not understanding how this is annoying for you). It's the exact same stuff that every other major MMO presently has and, to your point, LA actually has some other (albeit sometimes trivial) shit to do in abudance.

Taking WoW as an example, you have your raid lock out timers. Once you've completed them and gotten your chance at loot, you're done for the week. Sure, you can go back in but you won't be able to obtain any loot. It's the exact same thing. You are capped on your main character from a progression standpoint by the lockouts -- this has become a staple of the MMO genre forever. Gone are the days where developers allow people to push through for the best gear over & over again. The genre simply disguises how this is done differently (instead of respawn timers, we now have an interface with a lockout timer).

It's also disingenuous to say that completing your skill points, islands, gathering all songs, affinity, etc is not considered playing. Like, huh? Sure, running around and completing a quest for a story that you don't find appealing may not be the gameplay that you enjoy but, again, this is an MMO. If running around and completing quests as well as rushing to an island that pop'd up to compete for an unlock chance (the very definition of emergent gameplay) isn't 'playing' then, well, you're in the wrong genre.
 
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Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
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Gone are the days where developers allow people to push through for the best gear over & over again.
LOL when did those days ever exist? Even when all this exploded in '99-'00 with EQ, gear was time-gated. The only thing you could "farm over and over" again was group gear and even THAT was time-gated in the sense that named had PHs, which had respawns timers, and then there was also the rarity of the item you need to drop to factor in.

Time-gating gear and subsequently content has ALWAYS been a staple of the MMO genre. I really don't understand it as a complaint.
 

Zindan

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Preface...I have not played the game.

Having said that, it looks like this is more of an mmoarpg than your typical arpg and thus has group content throughout the whole experience.

Having people encouraged to roll alts and play will ensure a steady player base at all levels, vs every other arpg where it's a mad dash to lvl cap, and then the game begins.

Remove the incentive to roll alts to funnel gear to a main, and all the content pre level cap is completely wasted and any newer players coming in would find the world empty, as people are always on their mains..and leaving the journey to 50 completely void and empty.
Except that will happen anyway. All those alts will ding 50 and just do the lvl50 content, so no matter how many alts you may think a playerbase will make, it will never be enough to fill the population gap pre 50 for new players coming in months later.
 

Voldeth

Trakanon Raider
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There is really no pre level cap game in Lost Ark in the traditional MMO sense. You hit max level in about 9-12 hours (provided you skip quests prior to Arthetine) or 15-20 hours if you're going slow and enjoying cutscenes, etc. All of the level up dungeons can be solo'd (even on hard mode) with great ease. The difference in content really occurs at max level only. I mean, theoretically, you could level up and go for every Makoko seed on the map, 100% each continent (which requires farming low % chance drops, killing all rare mobs, killing the world bosses that appear, etc) but no one will actually do this.
 
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Raes

Vyemm Raider
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This is where we fundamentally disagree (well, moreso that I'm not understanding how this is annoying for you). It's the exact same stuff that every other major MMO presently has and, to your point, LA actually has some other (albeit sometimes trivial) shit to do in abudance.

Taking WoW as an example, you have your raid lock out timers. Once you've completed them and gotten your chance at loot, you're done for the week. Sure, you can go back in but you won't be able to obtain any loot. It's the exact same thing. You are capped on your main character from a progression standpoint by the lockouts -- this has become a staple of the MMO genre forever. Gone are the days where developers allow people to push through for the best gear over & over again. The genre simply disguises how this is done differently (instead of respawn timers, we now have an interface with a lockout timer).

It's also disingenuous to say that completing your skill points, islands, gathering all songs, affinity, etc is not considered playing. Like, huh? Sure, running around and completing a quest for a story that you don't find appealing may not be the gameplay that you enjoy but, again, this is an MMO. If running around and completing quests as well as rushing to an island that pop'd up to compete for an unlock chance (the very definition of emergent gameplay) isn't 'playing' then, well, you're in the wrong genre.

Using your example, in WoW, yeah, raiding is limited, but running dungeons isn't. Yes, time-gating is a thing in mmos. But, in LA it's not really time-gating, it's gold-gating.

You are right, it would be disingenuous to say that those activities are not considered playing. Which is why I did not say that. I said "*I* don't consider them "play". I enjoy Lost Ark for the awesome combat, not the mediocre quest dialogue. I do my best to differentiate between statements that are my opinion and those that are fact.

Anyways, as far as the lack of what I consider "play" (ie combat oriented activities) the devs seem to realize this and have been adding more options. Such as, being able to continue to enter the Chaos dungeon after your two daily entries are spent, and have a very low chance of the usual items dropping, but being able to farm new tokens which can be spent at a new nearby vendor. And a new "endless dungeon" type activity which just got added. Unfortunately, the Chaos dungeon grind option is only for 1300+ GS, so we won't be seeing that for like a year. And the other dungeon, I forget the GS requirement, and RU just got it a couple weeks ago, so not sure when NA will get it.
 
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Brikker

Trump's Staff
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Man, after being really excited to try this, the past two pages have completely deflated me.

Sounds like tedious bullshit but then MMO gameplay turns me way the hell off these days. Side effects of becoming a parent I guess!
 
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Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Sounds like tedious bullshit but then MMO gameplay turns me way the hell off these days. Side effects of becoming a parent I guess!

It's funny when you think about it. MMOs are about the most anti casual game type yet mmo developers continually try to appease them more and more and they are still a large chunk of most MMOs population. If I only had a couple hours to play a day I am not sure a MMO would be on my radar at all.
 
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Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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It's funny when you think about it. MMOs are about the most anti casual game type yet mmo developers continually try to appease them more and more and they are still a large chunk of most MMOs population. If I only had a couple hours to play a day I am not sure a MMO would be on my radar at all.
I think it’s more about finding the right mmo. Some are super casual and let you grind mindlessly. Others do not.

Even then, game knowledge can help you overcome a lot. I typically find casual mmo’ers are fucking awful at the games though.
 

Delly

Trakanon Raider
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Man, after being really excited to try this, the past two pages have completely deflated me.
Lost Ark is literally just like the other MMOs in a different package. Instead of farming dungeons, world bosses, and RNG drops, you do the same stuff but have to do use different characters and deal with upgrading RNG instead. This doesn't make it bad necessarily.

There is a ton of end game content, its just not all extremely efficient for increasing gear score. Which seems to be what some people here are crying about... but they already do it in literally every MMO they play right now. WoW, FF14, BDO, whatever.

Amazon/Smilegate/Tripod Studios did make a comment about p2w and the Western release. Maybe they tone down the pay to progress aspect of it but that actually requires changes made to the store and possibly the game itself.
 

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,377
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Lost Ark is literally just like the other MMOs in a different package. Instead of farming dungeons, world bosses, and RNG drops, you do the same stuff but have to do use different characters and deal with upgrading RNG instead. This doesn't make it bad necessarily.

There is a ton of end game content, its just not all extremely efficient for increasing gear score. Which seems to be what some people here are crying about... but they already do it in literally every MMO they play right now. WoW, FF14, BDO, whatever.

Amazon/Smilegate/Tripod Studios did make a comment about p2w and the Western release. Maybe they tone down the pay to progress aspect of it but that actually requires changes made to the store and possibly the game itself.
the only thing that got me kinda meh was the "p2w" stuff. I am perfectly fine with inefficient but fun endgame content.
 
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Tide27

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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I have now played the game. Got up to the point you actually start seeing other people in the world after you completed the prologue.

Initial impression...


GOD DAMN!

After I found the option to reverse the mouse, it was incredible. No arpg has the sights, sounds, and feel of combat like this. I did the initial warrior...berserker I think? And by level 5 or so, you already felt like a bad ass with all those skills.

The translation sucks, as well as i don't know what most of the items or menus are or do, but as far as just fun factor right out of the gate...10/10 in my book. Even just the option to spawn monster or a boss at rhe end of the prologue so.you could see what each class was like was phenomenal. I tried all 4 of the warrior classes, and all 4 had incredible sights and visuals and felt completely different from one another.

This may not be everyone's cup of tea, and I have no clue or opinion of the mmo part of the game...but there is no arpg game out right now that can even hold a candle to this game. Makes poe / d3 / last epoch combat and graphics look like a college interns pet project.
 
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Zindan

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I have now played the game. Got up to the point you actually start seeing other people in the world after you completed the prologue.

Initial impression...


GOD DAMN!

After I found the option to reverse the mouse, it was incredible. No arpg has the sights, sounds, and feel of combat like this. I did the initial warrior...berserker I think? And by level 5 or so, you already felt like a bad ass with all those skills.

The translation sucks, as well as i don't know what most of the items or menus are or do, but as far as just fun factor right out of the gate...10/10 in my book. Even just the option to spawn monster or a boss at rhe end of the prologue so.you could see what each class was like was phenomenal. I tried all 4 of the warrior classes, and all 4 had incredible sights and visuals and felt completely different from one another.

This may not be everyone's cup of tea, and I have no clue or opinion of the mmo part of the game...but there is no arpg game out right now that can even hold a candle to this game. Makes poe / d3 / last epoch combat and graphics look like a college interns pet project.
Indeed, this will probably be one of the most polished, fleshed out games you've played.
 

Brahma

Obi-Bro Kenobi-X
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I played the earlier beta, and had a great time. I snagged the 25 dollar package? What are Royal Crystals used for?
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
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I played the earlier beta, and had a great time. I snagged the 25 dollar package? What are Royal Crystals used for?

Cash shop currency. You know, how they make you buy a secondary currency, only in certain amounts, and set up prices of items so you'll always have some left over, but not enough to buy anything, so in order to use that little bit left, you'll buy more. Just the usual marketing stupidity.