Mad Men

One-liner compilation:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3009935.html

Cantatus_sl said:

Which is obviously setting up a lot of how this season is going to go. They're all slowly realizing that the big changes they made (most of them, last season) haven't really changed anything in their lives. They're all just repeating the same cycles they tried so hard to break out of.

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I think this entire show has been about two things. The first is obviously how identity is superficial (And so are any changes to it) and it's actually a construct ofother people, and not yourself. We get smacked with it all the time, "Who is Don Draper?" (So the only person who can answer that is the person asking it.)--but Don's only the most obvious of it. The series is full of how people put on false faces--like how Roger and Joan carry on a very intimate affair, with deep affection, only to act like complete strangers later (One of my favorite shots in the entire series is when they leave the hotel and stand on the slanted street--it perfectly symbolizes them going from equals/lovers, back to being a boss/secretary, with Joan on the lower end of the street.)...Or how Peggy disguised her pregnancy, or Joan disguised hers, or how Pete acts like an asshole to cover up his insatiable desire to be close to people, which he thinks is a weakness. (Hence his whole, I want to live in the woods, because manliness is being solitary and independent.)

I mean, the center of the show is about Advertising--the profession that literally tries to put an attractive face on a product. As Don said, it's about making you feel "okay", because when you feel okay,thatis happiness. And that's what all these lies and false faces are. Roger pretends Joan is just a secretary in front of everyone to make sure they are comfortable, and to fool himself into thinking he's being a good father and husband. Don's again is the most apparent, his false face made it okay for take himself from danger, to let him himlive. And when people can't change? They die--Just like Don's brother and Lane. But there are figurative deaths, too, like Sal being unable to change his identity as a homosexual, so he lost his "life" (His job, and from what we saw, his wife.)

And that, I believe is the second big motif in the show. Death (And superficial rebirths to avoid it)--and how to live with the fact that everything you are, and everything you know, will one day be gone. This episode slammed that home really hard with the water, and the funeral. The fact is, we need to those masks and lies to keep ourselves happy, because beneath it all is the biggest, scariest truth--we are going to die. And we need to cover that up most of all, because it's impossible to rationally accept it (I mean, think of how fucking absurd death is--it's really absurd given our lives.)

Anyway...I wish I could force assholes like Edge to watch this show. Every time he opens his mouth about how The Matrix had some deeper meanings about life, I just cringe. Mad Men has twice the meaning and is ten times subtler than that piece of shit trilogy could ever be.

It's a continuum. Pete is becoming Don is becoming Roger is becoming Bert. Four men at different stages in their lives and careers, all on the same path.

Heylel_sl said:

It's a continuum. Pete is becoming Don is becoming Roger is becoming Bert. Four men at different stages in their lives and careers, all on the same path.

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Yeah, I really like that the most, they show how the philosophical undertones of the show works on each segment of life. I mean, we saw Bert Cooper had an affair with the dead secretary ect. So they have all taken the same path, the only difference between them is the kinds of masks they have needed to wear to make themselves happy. But their differences are superficial, they are still driven by the desire to be "okay", to be happy.

I don't know if Pete can ever really become Don. Unless you mean it in a more abstract sense. He lacks the charisma, physical presence and talent Don grasps. No one shuts up and listens when Pete talks. When Don is talking everyone is all ears.

If anything Peggy is becoming Don. I dont see at All Don becoming Roger. Roger becoming Bert? How so? Cutting off his balls and loving Japanese shit?

That's not precisely true. Pete is very successful in his profession, just as Don is. Their skill sets are very different, with Pete falling more along the lines of what Roger does, but there's no denying that SCDP wouldn't be alive without Pete's success at getting accounts. He's the up and comer, and season 5 made it very clear that Roger is threatened by that success. He coasted on Lucky Strike for a lot of years, and in doing so he's allowed Pete to steal all the fresh business.

Pete will "become" Don in that he'll have career success and a measure of respect without ever managing to fill the hollowness he feels at home. Trudy is light years better as a person than Betty, but Pete still cheats and runs around. He's going to burn himself out and lose everything just like Don and Roger before him.

Gunnar_sl said:

If anything Peggy is becoming Don. I dont see at All Don becoming Roger. Roger becoming Bert? How so? Cutting off his balls and loving Japanese shit?

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You can't look at superficial details for all the meaning in this show. Most of it is below the surface. Don *has* become Roger. Remember when Roger divorced his wife to marry Jane, and how disgusted Don became with him? This is a man who he knows had been running around on his wife for years, but the moment a divorce enters into it Don loses all respect for him. It was a major rift between them for something like two seasons, until... Don does the same thing. He runs around, gets caught, ends up divorced and married to his own secretary. The exact same set of actions for which Don called Roger a naive fool just a year or two before.

Roger is becoming Bert because, like Bert has always been, he's no longer vital to the business. He's coasting on his past, practically semi-retired and just coming into the office because it's what he's always done. Pete brings in all the business, Roger is just window dressing. He's fossilizing. If you really want to connect some kind of superficial detail, they both have been seen with enormous, cryptic paintings in their office that they obsess over. That's not by accident.

Gunnar_sl said:

If anything Peggy is becoming Don. I dont see at All Don becoming Roger. Roger becoming Bert? How so? Cutting off his balls and loving Japanese shit?

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What does Bert do around the office all day? Nothing. Bert didn't even have an office in the building...and who was asked to give up his office last season? Roger. Was Pete just randomly being a dick to him? No, it's because Roger doesn't do anything, he is literally just becoming financial backing--much like Bert already is, and that makes him irrelevant in the company's day to day (So he doesn't need an office, like Bert doesn't.). Another example, last season Roger scrambled around, trying to get into Pete's meetings, trying to stay informed and in control--Bert didn't scramble, he was just forgotten (In one scene he even asked them to not do the meeting without him and they ignored him).

Don and Roger is such a huge theme of the show, if you don't see it I'm not sure what to say (So many examples.)

The thing is, it's notliteral. They don't one for one become each other. That's what the "masks" are, they project themselves differently based on the situation, their looks/charisma, and a lot of things. But underneath it all, they follow the same basic pattern, because their main goal is always about achieving happiness, and at different stages of their life, that means different things.

Good points but I still think Pete has an easy time getting customers in the door because of the talent. I'm not arguing Pete isn't good at his job. He does seem to appease the customers very much and have a good relationship with them and smooth things over when Don goes crazy. I just don't know how many customers are customers of SCDP because they loved Pete so much. But you're right the transition is going from Sterling-Cooper to SCDP to eventually just Draper-Price.

Pete has been shown throughout the show to have a unique talent where accounts are concerned. From the business perspective, accounts and creative go hand in hand. Don can be shit hot creative all day, but it doesn't mean shit if accounts isn't managing the expectations of the clients and getting the right representatives through the door. They talk all the time about how their creative is what sets them apart from the larger agencies, but they also have to have the account management expertise to go along with that and service the particular niche of clients that they attract. Pete isn't just good, he is the best account man they have, better than Roger even. At least better than Roger is now, because Roger has faded in his profession where Pete is up and coming.

Heylel_sl said:

That's not precisely true. Pete is very successful in his profession, just as Don is. Their skill sets are very different, with Pete falling more along the lines of what Roger does, but there's no denying that SCDP wouldn't be alive without Pete's success at getting accounts. He's the up and comer, and season 5 made it very clear that Roger is threatened by that success. He coasted on Lucky Strike for a lot of years, and in doing so he's allowed Pete to steal all the fresh business.

Pete will "become" Don in that he'll have career success and a measure of respect without ever managing to fill the hollowness he feels at home. Trudy is light years better as a person than Betty, but Pete still cheats and runs around. He's going to burn himself out and lose everything just like Don and Roger before him.

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I dont disagree with what you say, but saying Pete Becomes Don is kind of misleading.

Sure, he is talented, successful and will burn out. Thats less about don and more about EVERY exec. Its across the board. Don, Roger, Duck Phillips, insert any name. Its the beast of the business. but like Bert said when they broke off on their own, if they retire they will lose their hunger and end up dead.

Heylel_sl said:

You can't look at superficial details for all the meaning in this show. Most of it is below the surface. Don *has* become Roger. Remember when Roger divorced his wife to marry Jane, and how disgusted Don became with him? This is a man who he knows had been running around on his wife for years, but the moment a divorce enters into it Don loses all respect for him. It was a major rift between them for something like two seasons, until... Don does the same thing. He runs around, gets caught, ends up divorced and married to his own secretary. The exact same set of actions for which Don called Roger a naive fool just a year or two before.

Roger is becoming Bert because, like Bert has always been, he's no longer vital to the business. He's coasting on his past, practically semi-retired and just coming into the office because it's what he's always done. Pete brings in all the business, Roger is just window dressing. He's fossilizing. If you really want to connect some kind of superficial detail, they both have been seen with enormous, cryptic paintings in their office that they obsess over. That's not by accident.

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I dont think the rift was because of the Divorce itself, but the nature of it. Roger tossed his family to the side to marry a young whore that he barely knew. It was a mid life Crisis. The rift was from Don trying to be an account man and do it all with Connie, ignoring the Roger, who got him into the business. People

Heylel_sl said:

It's a continuum. Pete is becoming Don is becoming Roger is becoming Bert. Four men at different stages in their lives and careers, all on the same path.

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Petewantsto be Don. He wants the respect and notoriety Don gets. He wants the authority and power. And that's why he won't become Don. Don has those things because his priority has always been to make a great ad. He's wrapped it up into his identity as such that he only feels satisfaction when he's successfully completed an ad campaign. Pete just sees that as a means to the end.

That's why Peggy is more on the path to becoming Don. She, like Don, didn't exactly seek out to become a copywriter, but she's slowly let that become a large part of who she is (even allowing it to ruin her engagement). The ironic thing, of course, is that where Pete tends to see Don as this advertising giant to aspire to be, Peggy is the only one that truly sees Don and knows that isn't a path to to take lightly.

Cantatus_sl said:

Petewantsto be Don. He wants the respect and notoriety Don gets. He wants the authority and power. And that's why he won't become Don. Don has those things because his priority has always been to make a great ad. He's wrapped it up into his identity as such that he only feels satisfaction when he's successfully completed an ad campaign. Pete just sees that as a means to the end.

That's why Peggy is more on the path to becoming Don. She, like Don, didn't exactly seek out to become a copywriter, but she's slowly let that become a large part of who she is (even allowing it to ruin her engagement). The ironic thing, of course, is that where Pete tends to see Don as this advertising giant to aspire to be, Peggy is the only one that truly sees Don and knows that isn't a path to to take lightly.

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Perfectly put.

Gunnar_sl said:

I dont think the rift was because of the Divorce itself, but the nature of it. Roger tossed his family to the side to marry a young whore that he barely knew. It was a mid life Crisis. The rift was from Don trying to be an account man and do it all with Connie, ignoring the Roger, who got him into the business. People

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The rift started the moment Don found out Roger was fucking Jane. Jane was still Don's secretary at the time. The Hilton thing came after, that was Don's first moment of humility where he had to admit to Roger that he needed him. The second came after when he did exactly what Roger did and left his wife for his smokin hot young secretary.

Don creates the illusion of happiness in his relationships and finds them empty. So he steps out of them. It is a pattern he repeats over and over. He had the idyllic marriage with Betty. And look what he did, he did nothing but look elsewhere. But in his mind as long as he kept the appearance up then he was doing his duty. His reaction to Roger shacking up with Jane is very similar to Betty's reaction when she found out the truth about Don's past, he reacted with disgust and immediately judged him for his action.

Yep.

Don's got 99 problems, and a bitch is 98 of them.

chaos_sl said:

Don creates the illusion of happiness in his relationships and finds them empty. So he steps out of them. It is a pattern he repeats over and over. He had the idyllic marriage with Betty. And look what he did, he did nothing but look elsewhere.But in his mind as long as he kept the appearance up then he was doing his duty.His reaction to Roger shacking up with Jane is very similar to Betty's reaction when she found out the truth about Don's past, he reacted with disgust and immediately judged him for his action.

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Exactly, this is the whole advertising="being okay"=happiness theme. Don knew Roger was cheating on his family forever (With Joan), it was only when the cheating threatened to break the illusion of normalcy, when it threatened everyone's comfort (Most notably Roger's OWN comfort), that it became disgusting/threatening. Just like Betty--Don didn't all the sudden change and that's what Betty god mad at. He just failed to keep up the illusion, and the illusion of normalcy was important. (And, in fact, we get the sense for a while afterwords, she regrets it, realizing how small and superficial the illusion was--when she is confronted with death, an "ultimate" force in the show, she runs to Don to talk to him).

Finally got around to watching the premiere. I dunno, the show is so beautiful, the acting is great, they deal with adult themes and they have long subtle story arcs. My problem is, I just don't give a shit about any of the characters anymore. All the male leads (Don, Peter and Roger) are people I simply can't root for in any way and I dont want to hear more about them. The closest to a good person is Peggy and now she is shown abusing the shit out of her subordinates.

At least last season I had Lane to root for. That sure worked out great didn't it?

khalid_sl said:

Finally got around to watching the premiere. I dunno, the show is so beautiful, the acting is great, they deal with adult themes and they have long subtle story arcs. My problem is, I just don't give a shit about any of the characters anymore. All the male leads (Don, Peter and Roger) are people I simply can't root for in any way and I dont want to hear more about them. The closest to a good person is Peggy and now she is shown abusing the shit out of her subordinates.

At least last season I had Lane to root for. That sure worked out great didn't it?

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I still enjoy don and roger. But I really can't root for Joan after she whored herself out. Im going to miss lane knocking out Pete. Wish that happened every episode.

I'm wondering if Stanley or Ginsberg are going to be bigger characters this season. I like them both.

This bob benson guy can go away please.