Mad Men

Peggy isn't abusing anyone bro, you're high. She made them work. To her, that is what happiness is. The work. Shit, she even gave them her sandwich.

I don't really think the show is about rooting for people or "good" people. It is just a story about some shit that happens to these people with some deeper themes throughout. You don't have to root for them to enjoy the story.

chaos_sl said:

Peggy isn't abusing anyone bro, you're high. She made them work. To her, that is what happiness is. The work. Shit, she even gave them her sandwich.

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Making them work on new years and treating them like shit is abuse. Now granted, SHE doesn't see it as abuse, which is part of the problem.

chaos_sl said:

I don't really think the show is about rooting for people or "good" people.

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Oh, you are 100% right. I definitely agree it isn't about good people. I just don't know if I personally am interested in a show with deep themes that doesn't have any likable characters.

That just isn't abuse for the industry they are in. They had a deadline for a major client, they had to work. It isn't as if she pulled that out of her ass, she is running the creative department and had to rework and entire campaign for one of the biggest advertising events of the year. And she doesn't treat them like shit, those ideas they brought her were bad. I knew they were bad and I am not even in advertising, I just watch soap operas about it.

If I had to work late, my boss wouldn't give me his sandwich. That's pure heart, bro.

Okay, fair enough. Peggy is my favorite character anyway, didn't mean to hate on her!

They're all still likable to me. Even Pete. They're all just poor little rich boys.

Some of the supporting characters may not be. Like Harry with the goofy sideburns, and I forget his name but the guy who writes sci-fi in his spare time. I get the feeling that out of the bunch of all the males in the show, the tall blonde guy is probably the only "decent" one out of the entire bunch. Harry would just like to be sleazy, but that doesn't mean he's decent. He even had that subplot where he cheated on his wife and fessed up to her out of guilt. That's Harry.

Out of the major characters -- peggy and joan are the "decent" ones. Even after she whored herself, still joan. But the 2 of them aren't playing the same game that the boys are playing.

But I still like them all. Even freaky fat-betty.

chaos_sl said:

I don't really think the show is about rooting for people or "good" people. It is just a story about some shit that happens to these people with some deeper themes throughout. You don't have to root for them to enjoy the story.

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Yeah, I've never gotten the sense that we'resupposedto root for these people. They are all flawed individuals in their own right, who occasionally become completely morally ambiguous. They're really too complex of characters to constantly be on anyone's side. It sort of reminds me of Six Feet Under in that way. Sometimes you love characters, and sometimes you hate them. For instance, I was surprised to find myself enjoying a storyline featuring Betty and actually empathizing with her. I don't even think I felt like that during her cancer scare.

It's such a beautifully well-made show because it IS so complex and nuanced, just like the human condition. It's a perfectly rendered slice of life of the 1950's-1960's era of Manhattan. This is really the pinnacle of post WW-II ascendent America, 'that shining city on a hill'. But what makes it so great is that it exposes the grime and corruption on the walls of that city that can only be seen after the sun sets.

It's not the type of show that will ever appeal to anyone that thinks Jack Bauer is a real American hero.

Oh, and this seasons story arc will center around Peggy surpassing Don in the world of advertising and there will be absolutely nothing that Don can do to stop it. He's Frank Sinatra and she's the Beatles.

TheBeagle_sl said:

It's such a beautifully well-made show because it IS so complex and nuanced, just like the human condition. It's a perfectly rendered slice of life of the 1950's-1960's era of Manhattan. This is really the pinnacle of post WW-II ascendent America, 'that shining city on a hill'. But what makes it so great is that it exposes the grime and corruption on the walls of that city that can only be seen after the sun sets.

It's not the type of show that will ever appeal to anyone that thinks Jack Bauer is a real American hero.

Oh, and this seasons story arc will center around Peggy surpassing Don in the world of advertising and there will be absolutely nothing that Don can do to stop it. He's Frank Sinatra and she's the Beatles.

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Nice jab at 24. Pretenscious much?

In fairness to him 24 sucks.

TheBeagle_sl said:

It's not the type of show that will ever appeal to anyone that thinks Jack Bauer is a real American hero.

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Wtf are you talking about? How does whether or not you like Jack Bauer have any reflection on this show? Might as well say the show will have no appeal to you if you enjoyed Mork and Mindy.

It was 3 oclock in the morning and I was pretty drunk. It sounded good in my head.

But ya, the last 4 or 5 seasons of 24 sucked and if you liked it then you are a horrible person.

It's not a show with a clearly defined hero. In fact, there's not even an unclearly defined hero.

The show focuses on Don, obviously, and he's a war hero -- but that's as much as you're gonna get from these writers. It focuses on Don because it's got to focus on someone but you could tell this story focusing on Pete, or Roger, or Joan, or most any of the characters and have mostly the same show. It's just a different kind of storytelling.

So that's why if you love Jack Bauer you might not "get" Mad Men. It doesn't make anyone a bad person, lol. It doesn't make anyone too dumb to appreciate it. It's just why some people don't much like the show. It's watercolor versus pastels -- you're gonna prefer one to the other.

Nevermind that Don could obviously out drink, out smoke, out fuck, and out fisticuff Jack any day of the week.

He can also fix leaky faucets in a single bound. I could do with less Don. Or I could do with a lot less of his extended personal life anyway. They spend too much time out of the office on his bullshit. The Hawaii thing was fine because it was for business.

So because if you like a show that has a clearly defined hero your brain is too simple and little to understand a show which deals with moral gray zones and everyday life? You're aware people can like a variety of things for a variety of reasons, yes?

I could do with a little less Don as well. Not because Don sucks... hell, Don's awesome in his fucked up way. But because the other characters are actual entities with interesting stories and conflicts of their own and not just props for Don's continual struggles with identity and expectation.

I think they did a great job spreading it around in the opener. I do have to say I was mesmerized by how high Don wears his pants, he's definitely prepared for a flood.

Most folks wear pants wrong, but I wasn't paying attention to his.

I don't know why people are hating on Joan for prostituting herself. She was offered $50,000, which according to a couple inflation calculators I checked is $350,000+ in today's money. She negotiated for 5% ownership, which means that deal, whatever the value, was better than the 50k. That amount of money will set you up for life. To a newly-single mom who has to work full-time, she'd be an idiot not to. Which of you would not fuck damn near anyone for $350k?

I completely get Joan doing that. I approve. Her child will be better off.

Interesting article.

http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2013/04/rea...e/#more-234511