Malaysian Airlines 777 Shot Down (?)

iannis

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Yeah it'd be a false equivalence to compare Russian media and fox/cnn. One is governed by being favorable to those in power, the others is favorable to ratings.
In a way it's just a matter of degree. Aren't both of those things just different ways to measure the same force? Obviously it's a matter of degree. But I believe that Fox News would say whatever Murdoch told them to say. I suspect that there are Senators which would do the same. But even if that is true, the Joint Chiefs would not... so obviously Murdoch != Putin.
 

fanaskin

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But I believe that Fox News would say whatever Murdoch told them to say.
you say that but murdoch is in favor of amnesty and fox news isn't.

I wouldn't say you are totally wrong, here's orwells introduction to animal farm that wasn't published, he basically says that in the soviet union censorship is authoritarian but in england it's mostly voluntary, the same applies to america somewhat
Orwell's Preface to Animal Farm
 

iannis

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Yeah, I mean there might be some differences of opinion. And apparently there are.

I wonder how much it pisses Murdoch off to be told, "We can't agitate for that sir, the peasants will revolt".
 

Tuco

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In a way it's just a matter of degree. Aren't both of those things just different ways to measure the same force? Obviously it's a matter of degree. But I believe that Fox News would say whatever Murdoch told them to say. I suspect that there are Senators which would do the same. But even if that is true, the Joint Chiefs would not... so obviously Murdoch != Putin.
The big difference is that one is governed by a targeted audience that may or may not align with who is in power.

Ex: when Bush was president Fox News was much more pro-Executive Branch. But when Obama because president it has shifted to being anti-Executive Branch. A media controlled by the executive branch would be consistently favorable.
 

Quineloe

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BREAKING: Dutch military plane carrying bodies from Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crash lands in Eindhoven.
 

Running Dog_sl

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A top rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has reportedly said that the armed separatist movement had control of a Buk missile system, which Kiev and western countries say was used to shoot down a Malaysia Airlines plane last week. Alexander Khodakovsky, who leads the Vostok battalion ? one of the main rebel formations ? said the rebels may have received the Buk from Russia, in the first such admission by a senior separatist.

"That Buk I know about. I heard about it. I think they sent it back. Because I found out about it at exactly the moment that I found out that this tragedy had taken place. They probably sent it back in order to remove proof of its presence," Khodakovsky told Reuters.

...As two further Ukrainian fighter jets were shot down, apparently by missiles fired from within Russia, Khodakovsky appeared to imply that MH17 was indeed downed by a missile from the Buk, assuming the interview with Reuters is confirmed. He blamed Ukrainian authorities, however, for allowing civilian jets to fly over its airspace when the rebels had such capabilities.

"The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence the volunteers have this technology, through the fault of Russia," he said. "It not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians."

Other leaders have repeatedly denied the rebels had a Buk, despite photographic and video evidence of one in the area of the crash last Thursday. There are rivalries and hatred between many of the rebel formations and Khodakovsky is believed to be out of favour with Igor Strelkov, the main commander of the Donetsk rebels
MH17: Ukraine separatist commander 'admits' rebels had Buk missile system | World news | The Guardian
 

Ridas

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As awful as shooting down a commercial airliner because you thought it was an important Ukrainian transport flanked by fighter jets?
Come on man. It was a mistake and a learning experience. No need to be all pissy about it.
 

Lambourne

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40 Dutch Marechaussee will be sent to the crash site to help secure it for investigators. The marechaussee is a gendarmerie force that doesn't really have a direct equivalent in the US, but they're about halfway between a police force and the army, and usually tasked with protecting high value targets like major airports and the royal residences. They'll be unarmed, but all leave has been cancelled for the airborne brigade as well, which is a fully equipped army unit that has armored vehicles and Apache helicopter support.

Stakes being raised it seems.


Also some pics of the first bodies arriving in the Netherlands where they will be identifiied.How the Dutch pay tribute to the victims of MH17 - Imgur
 

Loser Araysar

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totally makes sense for russia to shoot down a civilian airliner over ukraine
 

Erronius

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Yeah, I doubt the Russians would have shot down an airliner. That's about as likely as the Ukranians shooting it down while their own planes were escorting it.

I'll laugh if Russia is really firing from across the border at Ukranian jets though. Remember when Russia had a full-on Hate Erection and invaded Georgia because Georgia was firing across the border into S. Ossetia? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Even worse, at the time Georgia had some grounds for claiming that they were simply returning fire that they were receiving from separatists north of that border. Unless the Ukranians were striking at Russia from Ukranian soil first, Russia itself might be on even worse footing if they're actually firing into Ukranian airspace from Russian soil.
 

1987

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totally makes sense for russia to shoot down a civilian airliner over ukraine
I dont think anyone is suggesting that the SAM that shot down MH17 was fired from Russia. But rather, that the missiles that shot down two Ukranian fighter Jets a few days later came from Russia. And according to that article, artillery is the only thing mentioned coming from within Russia's borders.
...and have evidence that Russia is firing artillery from within Russia to attack Ukrainian military positions," said State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf.
 

Big Phoenix

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Im also very sure the untrained "rebels" are the ones using those missile defense systems.
 

Erronius

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Reminder: Most of the "Ukrainian Rebels" are Russian irregular forces.
Your"Russian irregular forces"is someone else's"Novorossiya freedom fighter". And while I imagine Russia is doing much the same as the US did in Afghanistan (supplying weapons and military advisers) I don't remember anyone calling the Mujahideen"American irregular forces". I have no doubt that there are those in eastern Ukraine who blur the line, such as ex-Russian/Soviet veterans who moved to and retired in certain Ukrainian areas and who now are fighting as Ukrainian rebels (as happened in Crimea), but in contrast with Crimea I haven't seen much of anything to suggest that Russia is deploying troops to areas like Donetsk in the same way that they did to Crimea previously, covertly or otherwise.