Manager wanting to change work hours on you -- what to do?

ShakyJake

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So I've worked with this company going on 6 years now. A few months ago they changed their support hours of operation by 2 hours earlier and 2 hours later. They have hired new support staff that agreed to work in either of two shifts.

The guys in our department are a "second tier" level of support. Our primary function is completing a component of projects and our secondary job is assisting with technical support issues that involve our domain. We've stayed primarily at our original work schedule although some guys chose to take the "early" shift since it means they can leave a bit earlier. However, as expected, no one really wants to stay late so that 2 hour evening window does not have "physical support". By that I mean we've been offering support remotely (i.e. the in-building support staff can contact us via cell, Lync, etc.) since, by and large, it israrethat a support issue arise that late in the evening that would require our assistance.

Well the manager suddenly got a bug up her ass and is insisting that someone stay late every evening. I'm flat out refusing to. I've been doing remote-style support for months now and it has been no problem. Hell, the team leader of customer support agrees that we aren't really needed past a certain hour. So, not sure what this bitch's problem is.

Just curious how others would handle this situation. Quite honestly, at this point, I am absolutely confident they need me more than I need them. The division we're in is SO disorganized, dysfunctional, and underwater with the amount of work that needs to get completed there is no way in hell they would let one of their most productive and talented people go (obviously I'm not being modest here but I feel it's the honest-to-God truth).

edit: Oh, and I'd like to add that we all had a meeting about 2 months ago on the issue of support from us. At the time they agreed that any new employees will be told about evening support. Well, two new guys have been hired since. One was told that he could do support remotely in the evening. The other wasn't told anything. So, I feel they pretty much didn't follow through with the agreement we felt we had.
 

Famm

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Quite honestly, at this point, I am absolutely confident they need me more than I need them.
These are all too often famous last words man, heh.EVERYONEis replaceable. This attitude is sure to fuck you in the ass...potentially. You should take stock of how good this job is for you and how much your quality of life may change for better or worse if you find yourself getting something different. Probably including how easily you will find something, and obviously taking pay/benefits/schedule into consideration too.
 

ShakyJake

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These are all too often famous last words man, heh.EVERYONEis replaceable. This attitude is sure to fuck you in the ass...potentially. You should take stock of how good this job is for you and how much your quality of life may change for better or worse if you find yourself getting something different. Probably including how easily you will find something, and obviously taking pay/benefits/schedule into consideration too.
EVERYONE who has left this company has easily found jobs paying 15-25% more. We are incredibly underpaid for what we do. The only reason I'm still there is because it's convenient for my class schedule. BUT, I have enough money saved up where I could quit and go back to school full-time to finish up my degree. Which is actually something I've been considering.

Sure, I understand everyone is replaceable and I have no delusions that they would collapse after my departure. But it would certainly aggravate an already turbulent and chaotic environment.

What's frustrating is that the need (the support) isn't there. It's coming off as someone just trying to assert their "authoritah". Even though it's not really something I should be planting flags and drawing lines over -- it's most certainly reaching that "last straw" idiom.
 

Corndog

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You need to find another job. Then say you're leaving to take more money unless they cut the bullshit hours and match the money. Otherwise put up or shut up.
 

Fifey

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You need to find another job. Then say you're leaving to take more money unless they cut the bullshit hours and match the money. Otherwise put up or shut up.
Yup. Just look for another job while dealing with the bullshit, then savor that meeting when you get to put in your two weeks. Feelsgoodman.
 

OneofOne

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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You need to find another job. Then say you're leaving to take more money unless they cut the bullshit hours and match the money. Otherwise put up or shut up.
Eh he just needs to find another job. I've never been a fan of threatening to leave with another offer in hand. Just pisses off your boss(es) who tend to have long memories with this shit. You also pass up the opportunity to actually accept the other job that you may not get another shot at. It would not be the first time I've seen the job you threaten go "ok, you're right, we'll do this your way" then fire you 2 months later with no notice, while that offer you had in hand is no longer good.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Depending on the details you also might have the option of getting unemployment if you are kicked out for not accepting the change in hours. I'd definitely look into that before depending on it though.
 

Pioneer89_sl

shitlord
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Ask your manager for the "compelling business need" for changing hours. There might very well be a problem you are not aware of. If she can't answer with anything beyond "I'm scared that something will be missed and I'll get my ass handed to me by some asshole VP." then you are screwed.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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female bosses constantly feel like they have to prove to every man that they can be tough too and so they make retarded decisions. if you tell her you refuse to do those hours she will take it personally and likely fire your ass the first chance she gets. just work the friggin extra hours and bring a laptop or tablet to surf the net. meanwhile look for greener pastures. threatening is never a good idea. its always good to leave a place on good terms because who knows if you ever find yourself in a tight spot and they may take you back til the trouble clouds blow away.
 

ShakyJake

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The way our division is set up is kinda weird. In a respect, the person making this demand isn't our direct manager. A few months ago we had a restructuring where our specific department was dissolved and project teams were formed. Each team has a project manager and under each PM are individuals that perform a particular function. So,mymanager is actually the PM (who doesn't even live in the same state), buthismanager is the bitch making the demand. In all actuality she shouldn't even be involved in these discussions because she doesn't have any real visibility on the subject. Understand that her primarily role is coordinating new projects, assignments, and what not so why she hasanyinput into the matters of customer support is aggravating. I mean, it's partly understandable because our job is partly support oriented, but ALL the other people on these teams aren't involved in customer support at all. BUT, the catch is this -- SHE used to be the manager (and a terrible one at that) of the now dissolved department, so I get the feeling it's her way of exerting some control over her former underlings.

I'm not going to threaten to quit but I am simply going to say "no thank you" to staying late. I already put in enough after hours work with all the damn emails needing answering, coding, and database tomfoolery thanks to the developer guys not giving us the proper tools....but I digress.

AND, speaking of female bosses -- a few years ago our company was bought by one of those umbrella corporations -- you know, the ones that buy a bunch of small companies then don't know what the fuck to do with them and just roll in and cause havoc. Well, it became QUITE obvious that if you're a female then you're on the fast track to some high management position. Don't get me wrong, there are some great female leads in our division, but several have no damn business being in the position they are.
 

drtyrm

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female bosses constantly feel like they have to prove to every man that they can be tough too and so they make retarded decisions.
Why do male bosses make stupid decisions?

Edit: And to ShakyJake, what industry you in? My corporate experience was always that IT groups were always shit on.
 

Hachima

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I would suggest a rotation system to spread the late work hours among the team. Do you use any type of support ticket system that would show the need or lack of for the late hour support? Another potential option that may get some interest with the team is a rotation system where someone works the full day (it sounds like it would be around 12 hours a day) once a week but then a 4 hour 1/2 day on the following work day.

If you aren't getting paid what you think other jobs you qualify for pay, my approach would be to first mention comparable and explain why you think you deserve similar pay, especially since you already have domain knowledge and are an additional asset in that regard. If you get a response its not in the budget, I'd say you will likely start looking into other job opportunities. If you really are a key person and are recognized for that, they probably can make something work. Also if you enjoy the work but you have upcoming school bills to pay explain the situation and that you need to make the best financial choice for yourself. If they still don't budge, you follow through and find something better.

If you have developed new skills during your job, it can be hard to get recognized for them and compensated for them. Sometimes it does take a new job where you are then interviewed and rigorously evaluated for your current skill set.
 

Gauss_sl

shitlord
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Shouldn't it be a rotation? Or at least a mix during the week?
This is the only fair way to deal with an undesirable shift, well that or start paying more as an incentive to take the evenings. I work in a 24-7 environment, and engineers would not put up with permanent night shift, so we do a weekly on-call rotation so that, should something arise, someone is always there to deal with it, but nobody ever really gets burned out by it. Yeah, that week can suck if something happens, but the management is pretty liberal about days off to compensate.
 

iannis

Musty Nester
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Basically you work them. If it really grinds your gears or it interferes with other responsibilities that you have you look for another job. Threatening to quit, even if it works as a tactic to retain a more desirable schedule, will only result in enough bad blood to turn the work environment hostile to you.

Questionable management is a fact of life. You make your trade offs. Sometimes it's worth working for a little bit less pay for an authority/management team who you know aren't imbicilic cowardly hellspawns.
 

Chanur

Shit Posting Professional
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Do a rotation or find another job. You might be able to get them to try and defend a business need or she might rail road you guys into the shift anyway. Those are your only choices unfortunately.
 

Obtenor_sl

shitlord
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You need to find another job. Then say you're leaving to take more money unless they cut the bullshit hours and match the money. Otherwise put up or shut up.
This is the worst idea ever, once you pass on another job because they sucked up to you on the previous one means that your current manager will know that you would leave in a heartbeat and will slowly start transferring duties from you and make you less irreplaceable until they ultimately fire you.
 

Palum

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Why do male bosses make stupid decisions?

Edit: And to ShakyJake, what industry you in? My corporate experience was always that IT groups were always shit on.
Male bosses make stupid decisions because they are stupid. Female bosses who would otherwise competent feel like they have to be in charge/responsible for everything and need to show they are powerful. Male bosses who are just competent typically don't care. Good bosses of either sex are universally rare.