Grabbit Allworth
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Marriage and the Power of Divorce
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wamphyr
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”Not a good sign your partner is more concerned about offending other people than offending you. ”
Well, I want to chime in on this with a different viewpoint.
Women are social creatures, group creatures, much more so than man. It is buried deep in their nature to grant importance to such things as group conformity and social acceptance by their perceived peers. Why do you think the first instinct of a woman is to stop a fight between two men ?
It is an facet of this deeply ingrained instinct.
Sure, in certain situations this means that she will be concerned about offending other people than offending you, if by other people you mean those from her social circle. It doesnt mean it is the end of the relationship, cmon.
Well, I want to chime in on this with a different viewpoint.
Women are social creatures, group creatures, much more so than man. It is buried deep in their nature to grant importance to such things as group conformity and social acceptance by their perceived peers. Why do you think the first instinct of a woman is to stop a fight between two men ?
It is an facet of this deeply ingrained instinct.
Sure, in certain situations this means that she will be concerned about offending other people than offending you, if by other people you mean those from her social circle. It doesnt mean it is the end of the relationship, cmon.
Cad
scientia potentia est
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They could just as easily acquiesce to Deathwing and not rile him up in his house. If they are small things, then they wouldn't mind ignoring them for the time being since they know he doesn't agree. But no, in your mind it has to be Deathwing who ignores it and is the bigger person, why? Yes he could absolutely ignore it and let it go. So could they. Any healthy relationship they will adjust to you and you will adjust to them - it sounds to me like he's the one doing all the bending, and they're talking about pronouns and feminism.
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This is an interesting tangent, one I anticipate will be relevant tomorrow as one of the pronouners is coming for my son's birthday and this will be the first time interacting with her since she changed her pronoun. However, I haven't had anyone, in my home, ask me to use specific pronouns. The friction has all come from conversations between myself and my wife discussing said people(that aren't present). She corrects my pronoun usage or uses their pronouns in conversation that requires me to ask who she's referring to.
For what it's worth, my wife didn't find the alphabet car joke in Chappelle's latest special funny.
For what it's worth, my wife didn't find the alphabet car joke in Chappelle's latest special funny.
chaos
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See to me it sounds the opposite, like he's unwilling to bend on anything and expecting her to adapt in each of these instances. And each time she doesn't, he spirals into anger and bad feels. Again, only going off what he's put out there, she hasn't asked him to change his lifestyle or adapt a new way of thinking, or attacked him in any way. Maybe he knows differently, but on its face the shirt thing is really a nonissue. The pronoun thing, she has a friend who changed pronouns. For you and me, that's dumb and not a thing we understand or even care to, but is that what she was demanding of him? I don't think so, from what we were given. His singular focus on this "SJW-ism" issue has led to multi-hour fights with his wife that end with her in tears because, quote, "i said some hurty words."
I'm serious when I said that his feelings are important, if this stuff is that important to him that he's going to the mat over just discussions of SJW-tangential shit where she doesn't come out on his side or reason the way he wants her to, that's fine, that's valid. But the result is that (from what we know) it's turning their house into a miserable place, their marriage into a miserable thing, damaging their relationship, impacting his kid most likely. So... what's the game here? Keep escalating until she becomes the person he wants her to be? Or (more likely) until the relationship is so damaged that it just can't be reconciled and will be contentious forever? You did divorce shit didn't you? You know how this goes. Either he's going to have to come up with some way to have disagreements with her that don't end up in apocalyptic fights or he needs to just get out, otherwise everyone is just going to continue to suffer.
Cad
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You're focusing completely on his reaction to this and not on her actions that are causing his reaction. She could stop bringing that shit up.
chaos
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We're only talking to him, he's only in control of his actions. Of course I'm focusing on his reaction. She could stop bringing it up, he could stop pushing her to change, lots of things could change. At the end of the day though dude has to make a choice about priorities in life and weight the impact of his actions on the future of his family. Making mommy cry because she has hipster friends isn't going to bring the family closer together.
to the extent I can look at her actions, like I said, they don't look that extreme. In this most recent case she said she has a friend who has done this pronoun thing and wants to have them for dinner. There's a lot of ways to react to that, there's alternatives to what's happening. Asking her to change in this case would involve, what, cutting the person off? Or cutting Deathwing out of that part of her life? How does this specific situation resolve in a way that doesn't involve compromise?
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Cad
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This is kind of a pattern with you, this SJW shit isn't that bad and you don't see the big deal, such that its a meme of your entire existence on this board wouldn't you say?
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chaos
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I would say that whatever I feel about SJW shit in general doesn't really have much to do with this situation. This is his actual marriage, his actual family. In my mind, I can disagree with someone without having to nuke the relationship to the ground. He has stated not so much that he can't, but that he just doesn't want to. He wants a different relationship than he has, and in the meantime everyone involved is miserable.
So how does this get resolved without compromise or just splitting? What's the third path here?
Cad
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Those are the options. She can stop bringing it up, he can stop being a man, or they can stop being a couple. Ideally, they would each come towards the middle a little bit and make efforts on both sides to get along, but with ideological disagreements that rarely happens; when people get entrenched in their ideologies they typically get more extreme not less.
He needs to decide if he can put up with this (because it's obviously not going to change) or he needs to move on.
Kaines
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You keep using that word, but you then only focus on how Deathwing is the one that needs to change. That's not how true compromise works.
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I can disagree with people. They better have solid reasoning otherwise I'm going ignore their opinion and probably start the argument again the next time said opinion comes up.
I don't want a wife that thinks the Patriarchy is real or believes in the female wage gap is real. I've had to disprove the latter THREE times and I still don't have proof the last one stuck at all. She just morphed her reasoning to the real ones so she can continue believing women are paid less even though it means it's largely their own fault.
If she could present cogent, logical reason to use someone's preferred pronouns in a social setting(of course I'm using preferred pronouns at work), I would be happy to discuss that and consider compromise. For the last time, it's not that some of these arguments are petty, it's that her reasoning is propped up by a thin veneer of dogmatic bullshit. This isn't new but now I'm hyper-focused on it because I want my kid as far way from its influence as possible.
chaos
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Dude, "he can stop being a man"? Come the fuck on with this. Couples compromise every day on shit, larger shit than this. He has mentioned some concessions on her part, with the clothing and talking to her about whatever his political views are and stuff, and he's mentioned concessions that he's made, like the needlepoint thing. imo these are just kind of surface level things, the larger issues would be some form of acceptance, not necessarily tolerance, on both sides. She's going to have friends and shouldn't have to vet them through him, and he should be respectful to them. But he shouldn't be having his child instructed on some ideology he doesn't agree with, or his home made into a place he can't feel comfortable. Long term, they both need to change. Short term, he needs to decide if he wants to change or not.
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Cad
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I mean, I guess we know your position on it. Being a man isn't important. Got it.
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I disagree on this. If my wife said one of my friends is a cunt, I'd have a long hard think as to why I was friends with that person.
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chaos
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But the arguments aren't influencing her, as you say, and they aren't improving your life, or your kid's life. What's the endgame here?
Cad
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