Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Voyce

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If you can’t accept the loss of a relationship, you have no leverage to maintain it.

You are in a boat without a paddle.
 
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Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
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Is there makeup sex after you catch her doing this stuff?
If you read his first post, apparently there is guilt sex. She banged like a bunny after cheating before he caught her for a weekend at one point. The core issue remains, though. She basically deep down feels it is ok to cheat on him via sexting at least and clearly knows this is wrong, as evidenced by her keeping it on the downlow. And Guardian is willing to violate her privacy to confirm his suspicions, but not willing to cut bait on a repeating cheater. He has this mistaken idea that he can somehow fix her "this time" because he thinks a home where parents have zero trust of each other is some how better for his kids than being separated.

Without getting too political here, I noticed he has pro vax virtue signaling in his sig. This tells me he is the kind to double down on a bad bet rather than accept the obvious, own up to having made a mistake, and moving past it. This all suggests a pattern of trying to make things conform to how he wants them to be, rather than how they rather obviously are. And it is a sunken cost fallacy situation. And I sympathize. Dude has ten years plus in with this and a couple kids. It is not easy to walk with that investment. But the moment you make the choice that you can't, you are now a prisoner with zero leverage just as Voyce noted.

Thing for me is this. This is not random physical cheating, one and done. This is emotional cheating, with her having personal conversations with these wasteoids over a prolonged period of time while supposedly in a committed relationship. Personally, I consider her fingerblasting herself to some dirty chat with some dude she never sees again as not nearly as bad as developing emotional romantic shit with another dude. Neither are ideal, but one represents a momentary lapse of judgement and the other represents something much much worse.
 

Soygen

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Zaara

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Sounds like she lives in a fantasy world she attempts to operate in tandem with her real one. She attempted to bring the two of them into overlap by making you aware of it.

She wishes for a life where she is interesting, desirable, an object of emotional and physical objectification. She cannot have this as a friendless housewife with children and a husband, and clearly she is not ready or willing to release that desire and accept her life for what it is (and, by that extension, move to work and alleviate a situation that causes her pain, distress, and the sensation of being unfulfilled.) You may have filled her needs at some point in the marriage but you no longer do. I'm not saying that to be cruel, that is just the fact of the matter. If this was a one-and-done thing I wouldn't be so quick to say so, but according to you she repeats this cycle with just about any emotionally- and physically-available male she comes into contact with. She's desperate for any shot of dopamine she can get. With this last one she got so tangled up with her desires that she allowed them to spill over in reality. This is not the act of a rational person. This is the act of a sad and desperate individual who has confused the fulfillment of her desires with 'happiness.' An underfed ego can be monstrous.

We (read: women, or the majority of them) are much more likely than men to justify an emotional infidelity than a physical one. It's a question of what she has versus what she thinks she deserves. The fact that there has been no physical pay-off (up 'til this point) made it easier for her to rationalize. She simultaneously believes it to be real and unreal, because of the muffling layer of the medium in which she practices her infidelities. In a moment of weakness she made a desperate attempt to realize a figment of her desire, at the expense of your mental well-being and pride as a man.

She's too far gone in her own hell, man. I've met women like her before a dozen times over. I've befriended some and became close with one who was in a circumstance much like yours. She gamed the system to become dependent on another person, then turned around and started fucking around on him on the side, mostly through the internet, because it's what she thought she deserved. A 6 on the internet with big cans? There was no shortage of male attention when she went looking for it, and never once did she consider the fact she was fucking around with complete losers. Their paychecks and bullshit loser lifestyles and even their looks and age didn't matter too much, because they weren't the men who kept a roof over her head. In her mind she distilled them all down to their singular purpose- a source of male attention that made her feel better about herself. She wanted to be hot. She wanted to be something people wanted. She wanted to be cool and interesting and sexy and would lie out of her fucking ass to get the feeling she was those things, because again, in a certain way it was both real and unreal. But even that wasn't enough, naturally. You can only fingerblast yourself at the behest of another for so long before you start realizing its all just masturbation with extra steps.

This is an extreme example. But have you ever thought about the life your wife would be leading if she had no rules, no fetters, no obligation to YOUR well-being?

Love her as you please, man, but understand your wife has turned into a black hole filled with nothing but self-made frustration, self-loathing, and desperation.
 
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Onoes

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My ex-brother-in-law caught his wife cheating in a similar way. He went to work everyday, and she got a job where she worked from home. One day he comes home and sits down at the computer and there is a minimized photo window. He didn't recognize the icon (super computer illiterate) and clicks it, only to show a pic of his wife topless in their room. He calls my ex-wife and asks if I can come help him with a computer issue and that's its very important. I think he needs help finding a file or something and get hit with "I think my wife is cheating on me.. can you look at the computer and find out?".

So yeah, super easy to find tons of shit hidden by an idiot. She's not met anyone in real life as far as I can tell, all online stuff, but she's talked about it with a couple guys. She was talking to like 9 guys all in all. It looked like that's what she was doing most days instead of her actual job. So, the dude is crying (they had like a 4yr old kid and had been dating since high school - they were mid 20's), and I tell him he can come stay with us. He wants to confront her and make her leave the house, she broke the family she can pay the consequences sort of thing.

Anyway, he confronts her, she breaks down and begs for forgiveness. He ends up giving her and ultimatum. She has to return to in person work, get a flip phone he manages, delete all social media stuff, she can only be on the computer if he is with her, etc. Basically he just went "I can't trust you, I don't know that I ever will again. The only way we stay together is if you cut all this shit out of your life." and she agreed.

That was like... 12 years ago? They are still together. I honestly don't know if she ever got another smartphone or anything, I know she has no Facebook account. She ended up taking up a ton of hobbies that fill her free time, got super into long distance running, and works full time.

It's fucking crazy to me, I would have just been done with the relationship, but they basically changed their situation from a partnership, to a 1950's style man of the house thing, and made it work. No idea if that just made both of their lives worse, or if this was actually for the best.

So that's an option. lol
 

Tmac

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I mean, I can't speak to all women but I can say that the whole thing started with him being a "Friend". He had nothign to lose because of the distance he was from us, he only had things to gain (favors, sexting, companionship). I asked her the multitudes of "Why" and it really came down to this, she thought of her and me as simply just HER, and that MY opinion and will would mirror her own. When I told her "this isn't the way things are" regarding a situation or even regarding the guy, she didn't believe it because she didn't believe or trust herself regarding any shortcomings of the guy.

My wifes 1st visit to a therapist was last week, and it went okay I think. I still think that she worries about peoples perception of her and played down a couple points in her rendition of events to this lady. I told her, take notes because she is forgetful as fuck, especially when stressed out. One of the things she glossed over was my wifes obsessive personality, that trait plus her always wanting to please / be viewed favorably by people leads to some situations where people can easily manipulate her. This combo stems from being used (Not Sexually) and shoved aside early and often in life. This combo is part of the reason why I didn't lead with moving out and a divorce lawyer. The obsession part can't be taken as simple obsession either, it basically drives every aspect of her personality.

Her therapist is a lady in her 50's and while she's religious, she doesn't push religion as the solution to problems and instead focuses more on the behaviours that are troubling. She is pretty good at her job but doesn't understand the effect of the internet on whats going on, she is applying most of her therapy as if the guy was local, which, in my mind, is a bonus because it brings all this from being far off to more personal.

---

Said this before but none of this is an attempt to JUSTIFY behaviour, I want to understand the situation and most of this is likely a biased / slightly biased perception of events.

being that said..

Since I've been using this thread as a Pseudo-Therapist of sorts, why stop now. I find it helpful to rant here (sorry). Some more information that has popped up in the last month of on and off discussion.

This wasn't the 2nd time she had done this, it was the 3rd. The 1st time wasn't with the guy I THOUGHT it was with but when I read her messages and saw the line "a french person I knew showed me this book" (or something similar) I knew who it was immediately. She told me just how far that went, online only. Supposedly the guy even asked her to stop dating me and he would stop dating the lady he was going after and they would take their relationship to the next level. The shitty part, to me, is that I maintained a relationship with 1st and 3rd DURING their bullshit and AFTER their bullshit with 1st only because I didn't know about it. I even met up with the dude after they "Broke it off" because my wife (Dating at the time) refused to break off her relationship with me (per her words). Honestly it just makes me feel angry thinking about it. These peopel are people I consider more than just online acquaintances, these are people that I enjoyed spending time with and in each case they do whatever they want behind my back and when they are done using my wife (girlfriend in some cases) they just continue on like it was nothing.

Seems that the common trend is that these are people that I hang out with on a regular basis and USUALLY the relationship forms after a friend of hers bails on her in a hard way.

1st guy (French Guy) was preceeded by a pretty good couple we knew and played with in WoW bailing on us after I got salty on a "Casual Guild" leader because she was fucking some dude on the side and giving him a ton of gear. They bailed on us and left my wife with a statement of, "If you stay with GuardianX you will never have any friends". Such amazing people, they were mad that I brought dirty laundry to light because they just made officer status in that casual guild about 2-3 weeks prior.

2nd guy was about 2-3 years later and was preceeded by a gay friend of hers bailing when he told her that she was "Way too needy". He played a druid and my wife played a druid! When the gay friend stopped playing with her, the druid friend picked up that slack. She likely thought that he would bail on her and started sexting him. I found out about this relationship during the relationship, we were still dating (Yeah I know we dated a while).

3rd (Druggie guy) guy came after the crazy mother / daughter combo ghosted her, likely her perceived role in the destruction of daughter and druggie guy's relationship (that was ALL them...). Prior to him being a cornerstone to their gaming experience, she was grouping with the Mother / daughter combo. Once that dissolved she was attached to him through shared drama and then she didn't want to lose that "friend" either so she started simply enough with just sharing too much little by little. I kinda noticed all this and I noticed her putting on blinders for this guy and I told her look, this guy has a "Guy Face" and a "Public Face" around you he puts on the "Public Face" something that's presentable and likable, essentially he's on "good behaviour" around you. Her response to that, havign 0 common sense was:



Because she wanted to be treated like one of the guys. Everyone here would take that as a green-light.

---

When I think about my wife, it's 10 years of marriage and like 8 more years of knowing her before that. I understand her more than I think she understands herself in some cases but it didn't stop this shit from happening 3 times. I know she has TERRIBLE common sense, this is a girl who has chopped off part of her finger because she cuts TOWARDS herself and STILL pushes a knife towards her palm when she cuts things. I know she has dependency issues that cause her to react extremely when she feels like she is losing friends. I just figured that she would take a more active role in keeping me informed regarding her emotions because she has done so in the past.

Now for the part I know I'll get shit for, her therapist suggested that she should write a letter to the guy and not send it. Therapist suggested cutting guy out 100%, well the obsessive part of my wife needs closure (I've already told her that she needs to discuss the DEPTH of her obsession with the therapist and not leave it as a passing comment). I asked her what she would need to be CONTENT with the situation so there wouldn't be any lingering emotions one way or another. She said that having a last conversation where she basically sent the letter that her therapist had her write would help, irony of irony the dude never responded to her and ghosted her. You all can guess how this ended, if you guessed "MORE OBSESSION!" you are correct. I have suggested that she ask the lady for WEEKLY sessions for the foreseeable future. As I type this out, I may suggest that she keep a daily journal so that she can remember the intensity of her thoughts and bring them up during her meetings with her therapist. This last week has been pretty trying for me because I have to deal with an emotional woman that is lamenting the loss of (when you really break it down) her lover TO her husband. In her mind she is depressed that she just lost a friend group and a "Decent friend" because of her, self admitted, stupid actions. I don't want to close the door on her as she actually tells me everything BUT to say it's anything short of emotionally and physically draining is an understatement. I feel it is ultimately better for her that he ghosted her but for the time-being she is depressed / angry / obsessive about the situation and it's like trying to wrestle a jungle anaconda.

I'm working hard on not letting any of this impact my kids at all, I'm still the same level or MORE attentive to them. We don't yell at each other when discussing these things so there isn't any additional burden on them that I am aware but these are emotional conversations and my wife sometimes cries so I know our eldest notices. I am wholly committed to see my solution play out and I know, in order to do that, I need to do all the motivational poster slogans. Like I said, it's tiring and I'm exhausted a lot but, so far, it seems to be going about as well as I expected it to go.

Thanks for sharing dude. That is quite the train wreck. The amount of pain you must be experiencing…I can’t even imagine. Your wife has totally violated every level of trust in your relationship and that just…must be the most painful thing everrrrrrrrrr.

However, consider this. How healthy you and your wife’s relationship is determines how healthy your kids are going to be.

A wife who cheats on her husband multiple times and doesn’t see a problem with it is going to fuck up her kids. That level of bad boundaries, betrayal, lack of integrity, lying, cheating, etc. doesn’t just vanish when kids show up.

And idk what sort of consequences you’ve put on your wife, but it doesn’t seem like many. A husband who enables his wife is gonna fuck up his kids. That level of bad boundaries doesn’t vanish when kids show up.

Hyper-focusing on your kids bc your relationship w your wife is fucked isn’t going to do them any favors. Focus on your relationship w your wife.
 

Tmac

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My ex-brother-in-law caught his wife cheating in a similar way. He went to work everyday, and she got a job where she worked from home. One day he comes home and sits down at the computer and there is a minimized photo window. He didn't recognize the icon (super computer illiterate) and clicks it, only to show a pic of his wife topless in their room. He calls my ex-wife and asks if I can come help him with a computer issue and that's its very important. I think he needs help finding a file or something and get hit with "I think my wife is cheating on me.. can you look at the computer and find out?".

So yeah, super easy to find tons of shit hidden by an idiot. She's not met anyone in real life as far as I can tell, all online stuff, but she's talked about it with a couple guys. She was talking to like 9 guys all in all. It looked like that's what she was doing most days instead of her actual job. So, the dude is crying (they had like a 4yr old kid and had been dating since high school - they were mid 20's), and I tell him he can come stay with us. He wants to confront her and make her leave the house, she broke the family she can pay the consequences sort of thing.

Anyway, he confronts her, she breaks down and begs for forgiveness. He ends up giving her and ultimatum. She has to return to in person work, get a flip phone he manages, delete all social media stuff, she can only be on the computer if he is with her, etc. Basically he just went "I can't trust you, I don't know that I ever will again. The only way we stay together is if you cut all this shit out of your life." and she agreed.

That was like... 12 years ago? They are still together. I honestly don't know if she ever got another smartphone or anything, I know she has no Facebook account. She ended up taking up a ton of hobbies that fill her free time, got super into long distance running, and works full time.

It's fucking crazy to me, I would have just been done with the relationship, but they basically changed their situation from a partnership, to a 1950's style man of the house thing, and made it work. No idea if that just made both of their lives worse, or if this was actually for the best.

So that's an option. lol

Sounds like he hit her w some real consequences and laid down the law.

Women love that shit. I’m bad at exercising it myself, but it doesn’t make it less true.
 
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Khane

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Yea the only problem with that is do you want to be married to an adult, or do you want be married to a child that requires constant supervision and rules?
 
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GuardianX

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I dunno, yall treat Divorce like it's a magic cure all.

As I see it, by at least doing what I want in this, I MAY POSSIBLY avoid alimony + child support and 1/2 the time I already get with my kids.

Never mention the dating pool these days is absolutely shit for people in our demographics unless you wanna try to score a divorcee in your demograpics from a local church and pray she wasn't divorced for that very fucking thing as well.

Paint me one solid win in this situation that doesn't just end with me having more self worth because my self worth is almost directly tied to my kids.
 
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