Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Noodleface_sl said:

Couple of reasons why I watch porn:

I don't want to cum in my wife's mouth

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Don't lie to us, we are all pals here in this sub forum. =D

Every time we have tried to watch porn together we end up making fun of the people for the first 5-10 minutes. The X-art ones are the worst, they try to portray some kind of scenario, like lonely wife fucks the pool boy, but havezerodialogue. All of a sudden the lonely wife is just sucking his dick. We usually getting to business without really paying attention to it after that; just ends up as background noise.

You gotta go vintage if you want something with a plot. I mean seriously vintage. 70's and early 80's porn. Sometime in the mid 80's it started to change and you start to see more of the straight-to-the-A style porn (that exists in vintage porn, but it's hardcore compilations of quick-cuts) where they stopped trying to pretend there was any sort of a plot. By the mid 90's, a cheesy porn with a cheesy plot and super-cheesy porn music is a rarity.

I think it's probably safe to blame disco.

But then you have to deal with 70s and 80s mega-bush. And no one likes that

Nester_sl said:

Don't lie to us, we are all pals here in this sub forum. =D

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I don't want my jizz in my mouth, but I like the idea of it.

Khane_sl said:

There are so many fallacies in this post. A lot of the gay community is fiercefully faithful. You are making excuses for your own behavior because you feel your own desires and personality need to be excused. THAT is a product of our social construct. There is nothing wrong with the way you are choosing to live your life. But for many people companionship is desirable and a basic human instinct if you ask me. It's why people tend to go back to the familiar. We enjoy the comfort and satisfaction of not needing to impress. There is certainly allure in the new, but I feel that allure comes from the necessity to feel desirable to the opposite sex and less to do with "we aren't wired to be monogamous". If your partner makes you feel uninteresting you'll seek affection elsewhere. Humans are diverse creatures. We all have different wants and needs.

Monogamy isn't a problem, the social stigma attached to people who decide not to adhere to that norm is.

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What part of *generally*, prefixed and suffixed with stars specifically to curtail cherry-picked responses like this do you not understand? I put that there specifically to avoid a "but my Gaybors in the condo next door have been fiercefully faithful for years-- FALLACY IN YOUR FACE". Obviously there are loyal monogamous gays, duh, but if you think on the whole hetero and homo relationship dynamic is the same, you are either deluding yourself or are trying to be hopelessly PC. Step into your average hetero nightclub at one AM in LA, then go visit a gay nightclub in West Hollywood, then let me know if you notice any differences besides the gender mix.

As for "making excuses", I make none. Ultimately everyone is responsible for their behavior and actions-- it's one of the qualities that separates us from base animals. However I would argue that the base urges/desires I mention are present in all men to some degree-- some are better at dealing, repressing, ignoring, overcoming, etc than others. That whole "diverse creatures" thing you mention.

"Companionship", "love", and the desire for the "familiar" are indeed basic human desires, yet you seem to think these are mutually exclusive to "sleeping around" or wanting a variety of sexual partners. How many guys do you know who are married, "love" their wife, "love" their kids, are technically a great father, yet sneak out to the strip club all the time, and cheat at every opportunity? I've encountered way, way, too many myself. This is the guy that works hard, brings home the bacon, attends his kids' soccer games, buys his wife flowers every Friday, etc-- but just isn't turned on by his wife anymore and doesn't feel like destroying his whole family over a divorce. He likes the "familiar, he likes his wife's "companionship", but he needs sex from other outlets. These guys are legion. Now, I am not in any way, shape, or form condoning this behavior, and I am not making "excuses" for it either-- the guy makes an active, conscious decision to stick his dick into someone that isn't his wife, however I DO recognize and understand the impulses and motives behind it. Women associate sex with love. Though *again* there are exceptions, generally a woman that continues to sleep with a man will either a) fall in love or b) leave to find love. Men don't necessarily need to associate the two. When a woman is having an affair, it either ends quickly or continues on until she falls in love and divorces her husband. Women need to feel love and feel desired. A man who is having an affair who cares about his wife (and yes, I realize "care" is ironic when he cheats) generally doesn't want a divorce, he just wants extra-marital sex while maintaining the companionship, stability, and familiarity he has back home. While you always hear "When are you going to leave your wife for me!!", how often do you hear "when are you going to leave your husband for me!". It happens, but not nearly as often..

As for there being some social construct where being unmarried is taboo, I don't know whether you just live in Utah or in the 1950's, but I've never felt it. Marriage is certainly no accomplishment, staying together is. Every married friend I have is jealous that I'm not married, and I don't think anybody has ever batted an eyelash when I've mentioned that I'm not hitched. Would I like that fairy tale marriage/relationship? Sure, but I'm not going to compromise or settle-- there are certainly enough examples both in life and on these boards as to the results of that..

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:

As for there being some social construct where being unmarried is taboo, I don't know whether you just live in Utah or in the 1950's, but I've never felt it. Marriage is certainly no accomplishment, staying together is. Every married friend I have is jealous that I'm not married, and I don't think anybody has ever batted an eyelash when I've mentioned that I'm not hitched. Would I like that fairy tale marriage/relationship? Sure, but I'm not going to compromise or settle-- there are certainly enough examples both in life and on these boards as to the results of that..

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I'm going to ignore all of your anger and rage towards the fact that you're jealous you aren't gay because gay people can and do fuck everyone they want and that's what you want. Nobody is being PC, you're just ridiculous.

Nobody said being unmarried is taboo. There is a social stigma attached to people over a certain age who are not and have never been married. Go ahead and pretend it only exists in Utah. I can't tell you how many times I hear stupid shit like "well she's 33 and still single, there must be something wrong with her". People don't usually say it as much about men but it's still there. Friends treat you differently when they are married and you are not. It happens.

I don't even understand the point you are trying to make in that third paragraph. You're justifying selfish behavior and pretending these men are great role models just because they attend a soccer game and buy flowers as a front to make themselves feel better about the lousy human beings they truly are. You think his kids and wife finding out he's been sleeping around won't destroy that family? You think the kids watching their father make a fool out of their mother won't affect them? You think them realizing their father is a slimy liar and not the great man they thought he was won't ruin their outlook on relationships? Yeah.. divorce is way more traumatic then all that. Oh wait, that's probably going to end up in divorce anyway except it's going to be a much more bitter, agonizing process for those children. That "great man" in your example is self serving and arrogant. Grow up.

I don't adhere to the adage "Monogamy isn't natural". Being monogamous is natural for plenty of people, just like being polygamous is natural for others. Do what you want, I don't give a shit, but don't pretend every human on earth is fighting primal instinct by settling down with one partner.

Khane_sl said:

I'm going to ignore all of your anger and rage towards the fact that you're jealous you aren't gay because gay people can and do fuck everyone they want and that's what you want. Nobody is being PC, you're just ridiculous.

Nobody said being unmarried is taboo. There is a social stigma attached to people over a certain age who are not and have never been married. Go ahead and pretend it only exists in Utah. I can't tell you how many times I hear stupid shit like "well she's 33 and still single, there must be something wrong with her". People don't usually say it as much about men but it's still there. Friends treat you differently when they are married and you are not. It happens.

I don't even understand the point you are trying to make in that third paragraph. You're justifying selfish behavior and pretending these men are great role models just because they attend a soccer game and buy flowers as a front to make themselves feel better about the lousy human beings they truly are. You think his kids and wife finding out he's been sleeping around won't destroy that family? You think the kids watching their father make a fool out of their mother won't affect them? You think them realizing their father is a slimy liar and not the great man they thought he was won't ruin their outlook on relationships? Yeah.. divorce is way more traumatic then all that. Oh wait, that's probably going to end up in divorce anyway except it's going to be a much more bitter, agonizing process for those children. That "great man" in your example is self serving and arrogant. Grow up.

I don't adhere to the adage "Monogamy isn't natural". Being monogamous is natural for plenty of people, just like being polygamous is natural for others. Do what you want, I don't give a shit, but don't pretend every human on earth is fighting primal instinct by settling down with one partner.

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1) There is no rage and anger. Sarcasm certainly, but no rage, so chill-- just trying to debate here. Though I am somewhat envious of how gays can conduct themselves, I like pussy, so I play by those set of rules, whether I like them or not, just like every straight guy. I have no reason to cry over it because Hairy Male Ass doesn't do it for me.

2) Where the fuck do I say these cheating men are great role models just because the attend their kids' soccer games? Where do I call the men "great guys"?? What part of "Now, I am not in any way, shape, or form condoning this behavior, and I am not making "excuses" for it either" was not clear???? These guys are scumbags-- they have their cake and eat it do and jeopardize their marriage/family, just like any cheater. I am simply explaining *why* they do it, and AGAIN it's NOT an excuse-- EVERYBODY is responsible for their own actions and behavior.

Alright, the responses were too antagonistic. What I was saying is I don't think the way you want to live is wrong. I don't think you need to justify it by it saying that monogamy isn't natural. Different things work for different people. What feels natural to one person won't to another person. A lot of people get shit for living differently than the majority (i.e. deciding they never want to get married, not saying that's you but you get the idea) and to combat the incessant nagging they justify themselves by saying things like "monogamy isn't natural, you silly breeders".

Neither my husband nor myself have had super healthy views on porn throughout our marriage and it has been something I've been looking to change. I ask because I'm genuinely curious about what it means to other men. It helps me work with it within my own marriage. I guess I've just reached an age where I really don't care about being uncomfortable with things anymore so am looking to explore things we haven't tried yet.

I do apologize for sidetracking this thread so much. I got a lot of useful info though so thank you to the people that contributed.

Cad_sl said:

I don't think it "means" anything. Its just fun to watch and we like spanking our monkeys. We do things we like, we're men. Don't ascribe complicated motives to us.

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Haha fair enough.

I was going to say... porn is about as uncomplicated as food. You are hungry, you eat. Eating is not something I need to work on, to get my relationships to work...

And it's not like it's just men either. She can call them "romance novels" all she wants, that shit my wife reads is still porn.

I don't understand the consensus here that women don't like porn. Maybe it's because I prefer the "one the guys" type of women (sarcasm and bluntness scares the demure types), but if I had to take a guesstimate, I'd have to say at least 30% of the girls I've dated actively requested porn, with the remainder at least curious or willing to watch it. Girls who regularly watch porn are also hands down the best in bed..

If you have a girl that doesn't want to watch porn, or a girl that is curious to try, I'd suggest starting with the Playboy channel. Start with those silly nude game shows/talk shows/reality TV, then move on to the amateur home video stuff for some laughs, then move onto the more traditional porn..

I think a majority of women probably don't watch porn. They don't need the same visual stimulation men do it would seem. However, any woman who says she doesn't masturbate is either full of shit or a repressed bore.