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Trump's Staff
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Marriage and the Power of Divorce
- Thread starter Grumpus
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The_Black_Log Foler
Stock Pals Senior Vice President
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Ok I’m sorry for calling you a raftcoon here lend. I got a little carried away. It happens, sometimes…
In general your fair game kiddo. Have a good weekend.
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Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
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Is that what the word USUALLY means in court? That's not what it means in common usage. You quoted it right there, maybe you should have read it again.
just to be clear, $80k is top 25% of income earners in the US. I believe that's single income earner and not household income. If women are only 50% of the population and make just as much as men, that puts her in the top 25% of female income earners. We know neither of those is true, which would make that woman making "only $80k" pretty damn rare. Can you see where what makes sense for her might not USUALLY make sense for other women? I'm not sure what % makes something "usual". A case could be made for 51%, but I think that's too small. But surely by the time something is true 66% of the time, that has to count as usual.
The biggest reason my sister gave up her job to stay home was her happiness. She wanted to do that so she figured out a way to make it happen. Your wife doesn't want to so she figured out a way to make it not happen. My whole point has always been exactly what I said. It USUALLY doesn't make financial sense if you actually crunch the numbers. I didn't speak at all about other reasons.
Having kids also doesn't make financial sense if you just look at the numbers. I've read it's about $100k to raise a kid to 18 (YMMV). Paying for college could double that. In most cases the parents do not recover anything financially significant from their children. If the children do something like provide elder care to their infirm parents, then that is a financial benefit since it may save on elder care costs. But I'm not sure if even then it makes financial sense. If the couple stays childless and instead invests the $$$$ that would have otherwise been spent raising kids, they would likely come out much better financially.
Most people who purposefully have children do so because they strongly desire to have children. They may also desire to raise their children in a certain way. A woman may desire to have her primary role be a mother, not an employee. Couples like that make the financial sacrifice to have a stay at home parent because that's how they are achieving their goals for life. If they value being a parent more than being as rich as possible, then they will make choices that prioritize children and parenthood over money.
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More like $250k according to the last figures I saw.
I have zero qualms about sending my kids to after-school programs, even just so they don't have to spend 100% of their non-school time with us. I love my kids, but the fact is that parenting is hard and exhausting and their relationships are just flat-out better if they're around adults who have a topped-off supply of patience. (Plus my wife makes significantly more money than I do and I'm too grumpy and introverted to be a full-time dad.)
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
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You sound like an alt of Khane and Kirun.
The last thing I want is to think about total cost of a kid. Lets just say I enjoyed spending every penny and call it an entertainment expense.
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The_Black_Log Foler
Stock Pals Senior Vice President
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sakkath
Trakanon Raider
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I know plenty of parents who could use au pairs. Their kids daily cycle consists of going to school, then coming home and watching drivel on youtube/tiktok for 4 hours while waiting for their parents to finish work. Not a good way to raise kids IMO.
We used daycare, where I drop kids off and pick them up after work, until school. With school I've mostly filled the after school time with extra curricular stuff like sports, music, learning other languages. I'm lucky enough that I've not only worked from home for many years, but my job is very flexible, so I've been able to do school dropoffs and pickups without issue their whole lives, I can go to school for events, taxi between after school stuff, and even put up with kids chatting with me after school while I try (with varying levels of success) to work at the same time.
When we first had kids my wife toyed with the idea of extended time off work but ended up going back to work as soon as they were on bottles, 5 months or so after birth. She spent several years lamenting whether it was the right choice because she wished she'd spent more time with the babies but now that she's doing well career wise she sometimes talks about how it turned out for the best. Not being able to see inside her head it's hard to tell for sure how much it's really weighed on her, these kinds of decisions are hard to make. What's right for one person might be wrong for another.
I also know a few mums of my kids friends who are struggling to get back into the workforce after 5-10 years off. One is actually having severe mental health problems because she was some kind medical company hotshot before having kids and now can't get back into anything she's willing to take.
I've only ever known one family who had an actual au pair, and it was weird since the wife didn't work. She (the wife) was super fat and lazy as well. No doubt there's plenty of normal au pair families out there but I don't know enough really wealthy people to know any. I imagine au pair is less common here than in the US since our minimum wage is so high but I'm not sure.
We used daycare, where I drop kids off and pick them up after work, until school. With school I've mostly filled the after school time with extra curricular stuff like sports, music, learning other languages. I'm lucky enough that I've not only worked from home for many years, but my job is very flexible, so I've been able to do school dropoffs and pickups without issue their whole lives, I can go to school for events, taxi between after school stuff, and even put up with kids chatting with me after school while I try (with varying levels of success) to work at the same time.
When we first had kids my wife toyed with the idea of extended time off work but ended up going back to work as soon as they were on bottles, 5 months or so after birth. She spent several years lamenting whether it was the right choice because she wished she'd spent more time with the babies but now that she's doing well career wise she sometimes talks about how it turned out for the best. Not being able to see inside her head it's hard to tell for sure how much it's really weighed on her, these kinds of decisions are hard to make. What's right for one person might be wrong for another.
I also know a few mums of my kids friends who are struggling to get back into the workforce after 5-10 years off. One is actually having severe mental health problems because she was some kind medical company hotshot before having kids and now can't get back into anything she's willing to take.
I've only ever known one family who had an actual au pair, and it was weird since the wife didn't work. She (the wife) was super fat and lazy as well. No doubt there's plenty of normal au pair families out there but I don't know enough really wealthy people to know any. I imagine au pair is less common here than in the US since our minimum wage is so high but I'm not sure.
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Hatorade
A nice asshole.
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This was close to 15 years ago but my wife quit her job, she hated it(boss was a deviant and a predator but thats a different story) and they weren’t being flexible at all about her schedule. Newborn daycare was like 800 a week, so we didn’t take a huge hit.
So yeah six months in she started job hunting and found something making more then she did previously. All worked out, do what makes sense for you.
So yeah six months in she started job hunting and found something making more then she did previously. All worked out, do what makes sense for you.
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Ishad
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Au pairs don’t get minimum wage.
Program Cost
The cost of au pair child care is per family, not per child. View fees to learn more.
www.aupairinamerica.com
Aldarion
Egg Nazi
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Imagine not having children because they cost money.
Its what the money was for in the first place.
I'm convinced something pathological happens in the brains of childless people sometime in their 30s or 40s. Where they start viewing everything in life exactly backwards.
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Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
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Au pairs don’t get minimum wage.
Program Cost
The cost of au pair child care is per family, not per child. View fees to learn more.
the site is aupairinAMERICA. Australia will have different laws.
Yeah there's a word for it, but it's basically coping by justifying that you made the right choice when the truth is unknowable. Not unlike triple jabbed individuals who still get covid and justify it by saying it woulda been worse.
Not that I'm comparing the childless with big pharma's free guinea pigs. But people use that coping mechanism all the time. I wouldn't shit on them for it because at that point there's nothing they can do except try to be happy.
Springbok
Karen
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Yeah my only real regret is not having our kids a bit earlier… waiting until mid/late thirties just means less time with them overall (in years - get the feeling our hourglass is just less full than those who smartly had kids earlier) and more body aches, but we wanted to be in a spot where we could jettison my wife’s 90k salary to stay at home and wanted to get in as many expensive vacations as we could before kids (chasing the Norman Rockwell ideal, to mostly success so far). We’re 4 years in and it’s been great watching my wife rule the roost and form the deep motherly bond she has with them. It’s partly cultural (she’s a farm girl from South Africa where it’s unheard of to have the mother work while the kids are little), and partly the idea that her 90k is irrelevant to our QOL and extrapolated over 5-10 years is irrelevant to us when compared to time lost with the kids. At 75, for my wife she would happily pay 400-900k for that time back, as time ALWAYS proves more valuable than currency for all but the most poor IF family is your biggest priority, at least in my experience.
That said, we’re lucky I make the £ I do so I’m fully aware it’s not possible for all and everybody has different ideals expectations and priorities.
Kids ARE the best though, no question about it.
That said, we’re lucky I make the £ I do so I’m fully aware it’s not possible for all and everybody has different ideals expectations and priorities.
Kids ARE the best though, no question about it.
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Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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I've always been a VERY selfish person and somebody who has always lived by, "leave me the fuck alone, let me do what I want, and I'll afford you the same".
I knew probably around the age of 20 that there was no way I had it in my DNA to be selfless enough to "care" for a child. Almost all of the reasons I'd want to have a son are entirely selfish when I really think about it and break it down. Playing catch in the yard, having a gaming buddy, working on cars together, etc.? It's all shit to satisfy my needs, honestly.
Then you throw in my insane sense of loyalty/protection of things which are "mine" and I know I'd end up jailed or dead with all the things teachers, "leaders", etc. inflict on children nowadays.
There was a time in the world I'd have probably done it, but that time isn't America 2022.
Omi43221
Trakanon Raider
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I'm in the same boat, my girlfriend doesn't pester me about getting married but I know she would like to. Every time I think about taking that step forward I feel a little pukey. I already let her know it will never happen and she seems fine with that. It just hard for me to get past the fact I was completely in love with my wife and I know she was completely in love with me and some how today she can't talk to me on a phone.
I was just thinking about it today after my mom told me about a family friend who was treated for cancer and his personality significantly changed. The wife told my mom they can't sleep in the same room anymore because it's so easy to set him off.
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Omi43221
Trakanon Raider
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I have met several families with aupairs and never once did any of them have out of control kids. Sure small sample size but I'm not sure having an aupair is as deleterious as you are suggesting.
Aldarion
Egg Nazi
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even if your wife is only in the top 23% of individual income (before adjusting for sex or age which means its actually much, much smaller) or something? Is that what you meant?
The great majority of people in this country do not earn "only" 80k, and the situation is different for them than what you describe. Youre discussing a very small fraction of the country.