Master of Orion

Vaclav

Vaclav

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Gavinmad_sl said:
The ONLY thing this studio has done is World of Tanks. I've heard plenty of good things about the game, but that's still only 1 game.
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And? "Only thing" SimTex had done before MoO original was nothing. As well as countless other examples. It looks legitimately from the play videos like MoO2 play with modern graphics and sound - without heavy tweaks otherwise.

Seems like a likely slamdunk, since they're just refining what was basically perfect instead of reinventing the wheel.

Right now with what they've presented I expect it to have almost zero gameplay differences of substance. With not much more than a cut and paste behind the scenes. Likely that's partially incorrect and they've tweaked a little bit, but so far, besides the new look/sound almost everything is firing off memories of how it was in MoO2.
 
Phelps McManus

Phelps McManus

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Gavinmad_sl said:
Even though it's not the same company, MoO3 guaranteed that I would never pay for another MoO game without having first played it, or getting absolutely glowing reviews from people.
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This is how I feel, too. Plus I have a healthy disdain for the Early Access model even without the MOO3 shit sandwich.

I would love for Firaxis to get the rights to this franchise. I know Microprose just published 1 & 2 - and most of the big players from them are no longer with Firaxis. Still... XCOM 2 has aliens and it is awesome.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Jait_sl said:
I'm with Gavin. The money means fuckall. I'm just not buying a brick twice. I still have moo3. Only played once. Granted it was like a 20 hour session but ended with me like a 8 year old child who just found out Santa wasn't real. And neither is Jesus. And your dad isn't really your dad. Your mom is a whore.
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MoO3 was clearly trying to reinvent the wheel from the first previews - I don't know if I made the comment on here/FoH.org back in the day or not - but my first comments to the wife on it were "that looks like Ascendancy, I guess Chris (an old friend that preferred Ascendancy back in the day) will like it" when I saw MoO3 previews. And shockingly it played similar to it too.

Nothing seen so far looks to be reinventing the wheel besides art elements - which would need an update.

That said - I HATE the stammer to the robots in the First Look video - I understand they're robots - but it's annoyingly bad. Otherwise I'm optimistic, largely because so much is just Cut and Paste from MoO2 from how the demos have run so far.
 
tad10

tad10

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Vaclav_sl said:
And? "Only thing" SimTex had done before MoO original was nothing. As well as countless other examples. It looks legitimately from the play videos like MoO2 play with modern graphics and sound - without heavy tweaks otherwise.

Seems like a likely slamdunk, since they're just refining what was basically perfect instead of reinventing the wheel.

Right now with what they've presented I expect it to have almost zero gameplay differences of substance. With not much more than a cut and paste behind the scenes. Likely that's partially incorrect and they've tweaked a little bit, but so far, besides the new look/sound almost everything is firing off memories of how it was in MoO2.
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It looks better than MOO3 which is enough for me to purchase early access. Whether it'll have the staying power of MOO2, who knows. Main issue on the forums are starlanes (which were in at last report), issue I gather is that starlanes are tied to an Orion tech (instant travel) Perhaps to make taking Orion an ever bigger prize than in MOO2?

It'll be on twitch immediately so you'll know in a couple of hours after release whether it's what you want.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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Master of Orion 2 still withstands the test of time just fine. If I get a space 4x craving, I'll just play it again. With the 1.4 fan patch and maybe that mod that rebalances research so that there isn't a clearly superior option at almost every research level.

*edit*

If they make Orion even more of an instant I-win, they damn well better nerf gyros.
 
Jait

Jait

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Bottom Line:

You're all guessing. Those of us guessing this is a shit sandwich are much more likely to be right if you look at the history of not just MOO, but the entire attitude of "Our shit is so good we can charge people to look at it." The last big instance of this also included videos... not of the game...but of people saying "It's gonna rock!".

If Tad and Vaclav want to white knight this to death, great. But the rest of us aren't giving the Snake Oil salesman our money until you know...we actually see what happens when the guinea pigs drink it.

This is going to be a very basic strategy game, with great graphics, great sound and effects but ultimately very hollow as they don't have anyone with any experience making MOO, we covered this to fucking death on the first two pages with how MOO2 was a lot of luck and imbalance. Trying to recreate the original PC era is a joke. Stardock will learn that with Star Control. It wasn't anything other than the right game at the right time with very limited technology.
 
tad10

tad10

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Phelps McManus_sl said:
I would love for Firaxis to get the rights to this franchise. I know Microprose just published 1 & 2 - and most of the big players from them are no longer with Firaxis. Still... XCOM 2 has aliens and it is awesome.
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Meh. The $$ on voice talent is further proof that this is the wargaming head guy's passion project which is far more likely to yield something really interesting than giving to to Firaxis.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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tad10_sl said:
It looks better than MOO3 which is enough for me to purchase early access. Whether it'll have the staying power of MOO2, who knows. Main issue on the forums are starlanes (which were in at last report), issue I gather is that starlanes are tied to an Orion tech (instant travel) Perhaps to make taking Orion an ever bigger prize than in MOO2?

It'll be on twitch immediately so you'll know in a couple of hours after release whether it's what you want.
Click to expand...
Starlanes were sort of in with MoO2 anyway with "Wormholes" back then anyhow from memory. And while yea, if that's in as an early thing it would be mechanically different - sometimes a MoO2 map would be terribly linear because of only having 2 stars to spread to initially drastically limiting your path, especially if those first options were shitty.

So regardless of how early the starlanes are relevant I'm curious enough to give them a shot first - since I remember the initial "limited path" options that would sometimes exist.
 
tad10

tad10

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Jait_sl said:
If Tad and Vaclav want to white knight this to death, great. But the rest of us aren't giving the Snake Oil salesman our money until you know...we actually see what happens when the guinea pigs drink it.
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Mmmmmm. Snake Oil....

rrr_img_126961.jpg
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Jait_sl said:
If Tad and Vaclav want to white knight this to death, great. But the rest of us aren't giving the Snake Oil salesman our money until you know...we actually see what happens when the guinea pigs drink it.
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I'm not white knighting anything - I'm saying MoO2 is good enough I won't feel like I wasted money at $50 - and they're checking the right boxes on giving me hope for it being decent.

It might turn out to be a 1/10 from me, but bundling a Steam copy of MoO2 is worth $50 to me even if it is.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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Well if you're that big a MoO2 fan then sure, I can understand that. I pre-ordered XCom 2 even though I swore off ever even paying full price for a game again, much less preordering it.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Gavinmad_sl said:
Well if you're that big a MoO2 fan then sure, I can understand that. I pre-ordered XCom 2 even though I swore off ever even paying full price for a game again, much less preordering it.
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Heh, budgets vary from person to person too - my gaming budget is around $400/mo and this month has cost me $70 so far - it'll end my month spending $120 total and putting $280 towards KD:M expansions in a few months when they're put up for non-KS people.
 
tad10

tad10

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Vaclav_sl said:
Starlanes were sort of in with MoO2 anyway with "Wormholes" back then anyhow from memory. And while yea, if that's in as an early thing it would be mechanically different - sometimes a MoO2 map would be terribly linear because of only having 2 stars to spread to initially drastically limiting your path, especially if those first options were shitty.

So regardless of how early the starlanes are relevant I'm curious enough to give them a shot first - since I remember the initial "limited path" options that would sometimes exist.
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Immediately relevant. They even have tech for some kind of mini-station for guarding them as well as setting up fleet blockades Edit: see this->Empire Defense | News | Master of Orion. I suppose that's nice for giving you an extra turn warning before you're attacked. I'm guessing the designer also hated the mid-end game giant AI fleet that hops from one system to another, just ahead of your fleet.


Anyway here's an old build of the tech tree (YMMV): note that unlike MOO2, some techs have other-tree pre-requisites.

rrr_img_126963.jpg
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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I think sticking with unconnected linear fields and making the choice of which tech to take more difficult is better than using a tech tree just like every other game these days. So already a mark against them.
 
tad10

tad10

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Gavinmad_sl said:
I think sticking with unconnected linear fields and making the choice of which tech to take more difficult is better than using a tech tree just like every other game these days. So already a mark against them.
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Don't be going Full Jait and psych yourself into hating the game before you've even played. AFAIK, Tech is still one of two or three choices at each level, unless you're creative. If this is still the case, then it means even more difficult tech choices.
 
a c i d.f l y

a c i d.f l y

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I sunk sooooo many hours into MOO and MOO2, especially MOO2. Then MOO3 comes along and ear fucks their formula.

It was fun figuring out how to break the game. You play through the game dozens of times with each race - if you like to risk the long game by going tech pick the Psilons, if you want to go with a shit universe go for the Silicoids, small planets Klackons (subterranean, double population), Trilarians for ocean worlds, if you want espionage go Darlocks, military go Elerians or several of the others, shit Elerians were OP in general being able to see the whole map with Omniscience, Humans if you want trading/democracy bullshit even though most races wanted to murder your children and eat your wife. Etc, etc, etc, etc.

Then you would spend time figuring out how to make optimum custom races and just straight dominate Impossible mode. I found Lithovore to be one of the most powerful skills. Zero food requirement removes your need for sacrificing population for food growth, turns building food buildings, turns wasted on food related science. I also made a beastly +Production/+Population build, but found it had limitations like India in Civ 5 (food limitations, moral issues).

The only game that has ever come close to replicating the level of enjoyment is Endless Space. My Steam library is littered with try-hard games that were either helplessly broken, buggy, or the interface was a shit-show, or they didn't allow multiplayer/co-op. AI War: Fleet Command, Legends of Pegasus, Sins of a Solar Empire, StarDrive... ugh, just to name a few.

3D fleet battles... whoopty fucking doo. I'll probably play with that shit on auto primarily anyway. I just hope they fix the GNN robot and tutorial voice-overs, because just listening to them in the 15 minute preview felt like they were jabbing spikes into my ears again.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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a c i d.f l y_sl said:
I sunk sooooo many hours into MOO and MOO2, especially MOO2. Then MOO3 comes along and ear fucks their formula.

It was fun figuring out how to break the game. You play through the game dozens of times with each race - if you like to risk the long game by going tech pick the Psilons, if you want to go with a shit universe go for the Silicoids, small planets Klackons (subterranean, double population), Trilarians for ocean worlds, if you want espionage go Darlocks, military go Elerians or several of the others, shit Elerians were OP in general being able to see the whole map with Omniscience, Humans if you want trading/democracy bullshit even though most races wanted to murder your children and eat your wife. Etc, etc, etc, etc.

Then you would spend time figuring out how to make optimum custom races and just straight dominate Impossible mode. I found Lithovore to be one of the most powerful skills. Zero food requirement removes your need for sacrificing population for food growth, turns building food buildings, turns wasted on food related science. I also made a beastly +Production/+Population build, but found it had limitations like India in Civ 5 (food limitations, moral issues).

The only game that has ever come close to replicating the level of enjoyment is Endless Space. My Steam library is littered with try-hard games that were either helplessly broken, buggy, or the interface was a shit-show, or they didn't allow multiplayer/co-op. AI War: Fleet Command, Legends of Pegasus, Sins of a Solar Empire, StarDrive... ugh, just to name a few.

3D fleet battles... whoopty fucking doo. I'll probably play with that shit on auto primarily anyway. I just hope they fix the GNN robot and tutorial voice-overs, because just listening to them in the 15 minute preview felt like they were jabbing spikes into my ears again.
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Creative sucked. My only real complaint about the game was that almost every tech level had one advancement that was clearly superior to the other 2, and then they raised the cost of Creative on a custom race in a patch which made it completely worthless. Telepathic was pretty strong, since it completely did away with the need for ground troops. Nothing else could really compare to unitol or demolith when it came to custom races though.
 
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