Medical Bills/Bankruptcy/etc.
- Thread starter Tarisk
- Start date
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I meant finding out if there was actually someone there with the authority to order a psych hold when he was committed and if he actually spoke with that person. If the hold was 'legit', I wouldn't bother fighting it unless the lawyer tells you otherwise, because I doubt claiming false imprisonment on a psych hold 6+ months after the fact would gain much traction.
Tarisk
Pathetic Reaction Bot
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Yeah this is my concern also. I wont deny the care happened, so technically they can also validate the bill that way too. It was just not what i ever intended to have and I know for a fact not what I needed. The other people in the same ward put it in perspective in a ridiculous way that caused me to never feel so normal before.
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
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That'll teach you to seek help!
Seriously, good luck and keep us posted. This is such utter bullshit. In the same situation I don't think I'd ever pay. Whoever wrote the rule that said they weren't allowed to let you leave is the one who should be on the hook.
Seriously, good luck and keep us posted. This is such utter bullshit. In the same situation I don't think I'd ever pay. Whoever wrote the rule that said they weren't allowed to let you leave is the one who should be on the hook.
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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Psych holds can generally be done by anyone who's an RN or higher and are incredibly difficult to fight. Unless whoever filled it out blatantly lied, there's pretty much no chance of winning
Mrs. Gravy
Quite Saucy
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That is the case in MO....as long as the facility is recognized by the State as being licensed or certified to do 96 hour holds, RN, Social Workers etc can make the call. The person does not need to be suicidal nor homicidal...verbal threats and the intake person's professional opinion that there is a likelihood of harm to self or others is the standard.
That's the way it is. No one can look into a patient's mind and determine if they "really mean it" when they say they want to harm themselves or another person. Tarisk says he was misunderstood and being sarcastic, but as a health care provider you don't have the luxury of second-guessing. If someone says they want to kill themselves or another person, you need to act on it.
Imagine, instead, Tarisk convinced the hospital to release him, and then he went home and killed himself. Or worse, he was released and then killed someone else (had he threatened someone else). Would you be back here saying "OMG, his family needs to sue that hospital! How could they discharge him! Why didn't they take him seriously!"
Also, he was an inpatient for 4 days. Clearly there is more to this story. This wasn't some 24-hour hold. He needed a thorough evaluation, and probably treatment.
Tarisk
Pathetic Reaction Bot
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While I appreciate your analysys, the answer to your last part is yes and no.
There really wanst much more to the story. But i'll let you know how it went.
I was struggling with some stress from losing 2 pets, my cousin committing suicide, and just work related shit. I wanted to find an outpatient referral to seek help therapy wise. They asked if I would harm myself, I said probably not, I don't see myself doing it. They asked if I had a plan if i did. So i said I dunno. maybe if I wasn't a anti-gun liberal (not intending this to turn into a shitstorm of a derail with that comment. and no, i dont believe in taking them away. I just dont want to have one. I dont care for them when I've fired them, etc.) and maybe that would be a plan. I said I've had a "fantasy" scenario of maybe turning into traffic. But i ended it with "would I do it? I don't see myself ever doing it. I like living too much. I'm here because of the stress and want to try to get over it"
But because of the whole anti-gun remark, they treated it as "If i had a gun right now, I would". And that statement and how the intake person wrote it down is what the actual psychiatrist said when he saw me on the THIRD day, that got me in there.
because it took that long for one to see me and talk to me. the rest of the time was trying to kill 16 hours a day bored to shit with group activities and people who were legitimately wanting to end their life or coming in to sober up. They did nothing to actually help any of my stress. the shit made it worse because I wanted to go back to work.
Worst case therapy wise, I have severe anxiety, possibly some ADHD. Depression runs in my family but not really a factor in it after I talked to some therapists afterwards. Even they told me that I dun goofed when I said that to their question. But I really wasnt expecting that to be WHY they were asking the questions at the time on the intake.
So in regards to your 4 days comment. I was in there 4 days because it took 3 of those days to see an actual doctor. He knew damn well I shouldn't have been in there that long and let me go the following morning.
Not to mention, this was a private hospital. Not your standard public/general hospital. This is a place for profit and of course they want me in there. These guys asked me in 5 different ways if I would end my life until I gave an answer that fit their prerequisites.
Kuriin
Just a Nurse
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Sorry man, I feel really bad for you getting hit with collections...but, people are just doing their jobs when they put you on an involuntary hold. They thought you were going to harm yourself and even asked you if you had a plan. You said "I dunno". WHY!!! Why would you say that? The "plan" itself is what causes psych holds.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Thank god my therapist has never been dumb enough to try and put me on a psych hold because I've told him worse shit than that. Fuck, I've told worse shit than that to nurses just asking the standard interview questions before a regular doctor's appointment. Anybody trying to commit me to an involuntary psych hold is going to experience as much violence as my horribly out of shape and overweight body can generate.
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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It's not a 24 hour hold, it's usually 72 hours. At least that's how it works in Nevada. I'd say about half the people who are placed on them aren't actual threats to themselves and are similar to Tarisk's situation.
Unfortunately, it's all about liability and CYA.
Tarisk
Pathetic Reaction Bot
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Yes, I'm quite aware of that now. But I was never in a place of serious thought about it and I wasn't there for that kind of help. It's one of those things where yes, they're clearly looking out for things, because sure, they're liable if I did get let go and ended up offing myself.
But at the time, as Gavin/Twilight (whoever that is, sorry, I don't watch name changes) said. I figured what I said was tame, and even my actual therapist i saw after I left knew I wasn't serious. As a private hospital I think they're honestly doing both the whole "safety" thing and also "well we need money" route too. I have talked with people who have done similar at a more general public hospital and they were observed and actually interviewed more deeply before going further. This was just like a "that's a trigger! you're fucked" scenario. I even originally answered (at least in my mind) that I had no recent or vivid thoughts of suicide. It was more like a "well last year, I think i thought about a scenario?" type deal. I was treating it like a therapist would ask it to just kinda get an idea for how I am. but they kept probing for that trigger answer to stamp it for commitment.
My friends/family know me, I talk about my shit a lot with them. I don't just dwell on it, keep it to myself and let it build up into just forgetting that they're there for me. I have that kind of low confidence in which I'm not afraid to ask for help, be it with life, not knowing an answer, etc. I can't be that person 100% confident in something. Be it skill/knowledge/etc. Hell, was even seeing a therapist earlier in the year and talking about stuff.
Regardless, I know there's no point in really fighting the hospital on it legally. A lot of it was just being pissed about the making good faith payments and still being thrown to collections that pissed me off about the whole thing. Money is tight, but I'm just gonna have to do the bankruptcy route. Which honestly will probably be more useful to me in the long run. I'm just that person who doesn't want to drop what I owe people. I get that the hospital still(hopefully) had my best interests in mind and did what they thought was best as a service to me. I WANT to pay it or at least part of it for the efforts, but I can't in the time they want. But it's their loss more than mine already going that route. Just sucks knowing im taking the hit on my credit for 10 years and ditching some debt to some other people/companies not involved. But I might as well start as fresh as I can if I'm fucked and learn from it.
BTW sorry for all the run on's and repeating I do. My mind races around on shit and I'm bad at paying attention to if I already covered something in a wall of text.
moonarchia
The Scientific Shitlord
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If it's involuntary it should damned well be free. If the hospital or state has to cover the costs they won't be doing it unless absolutely necessary.
Palum
what Suineg set it to
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I don't know, there's lots of stuff a hospital might do to save your life when you are unconscious or whatever.
I guess I'm not sure why just anyone can order a hold, though. Seems like it'd be pretty easy to demolish your average RN on the stand in a false imprisonment suit.
moonarchia
The Scientific Shitlord
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Aid rendered while unconscious != aid forced upon you unwillingly. Depriving someone of life or liberty against their will is criminal if they haven't broken a law. Forcing them to pay for it afterwards on top of that is disgusting.
Palum
what Suineg set it to
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I should have used the word incompetent or incapacitated, then.
I don't disagree that it appears to be used in an extreme overreach, especially if what Kuriin is saying is true in that basically anyone who works there can detain you.
Tarisk
Pathetic Reaction Bot
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I just think they should have a compromise, if some hospitals don't already. Let someone of lower tier do the assessment, give their opinion to a doc and have them in whatever they're doing then come in as tier 2 and talk with you, get a feel for it. ask you the shit they're trained and educated to ask you on and THEN if still the case make the call to say "it's going to be best if you stay". But when it felt like what seemed was a glorified secretary doing it, it's just downright insulting.
Maybe that was what they were trying to do but they're just shit at staffing someone that I couldn't be seen until the 72 hours was pretty much up. Not my profession so i'll never know I'm sure. I know people in mine who suck at their job and i'm surprised they're not fired. For all I know, this woman was that equivalent at this place.
Vinen
God is dead
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Acting like an idiot in a Hospital and making suicidal statements is pretty dumb. You trigger alerts that you are a harm to yourself and others.
It is completely legal.
The world is not the internet.