Lenas
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MMA Thread
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Guest, did you like the last podcast notification?? Well here's the second one, and for the third podcast! Yep. This Thursday 8-8-24 at 7pm Central
Go here to check out his podcast thread for info on topics and links!Go into the FoH discord and find the Happy Time Fun Hour channel and give it a listen!
calhoonjugganaut
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It hasn't really been mentioned much but I thought Khabib started to gas maybe going into the 3rd round but definitely showed some fatigue in the last two rounds. Those takedowns became much harder to pull off and keep Al down. Maybe he threw too many punches and that was it, but his cardio didn't look as good as I remembered it being. Outside of that, he's a beast. He'll have to eventually evolve those other aspects of his game to stay undefeated though.
yamikazo
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I agree. Khabib is as entertaining as Ben Askren – who also never lost a fight and is semi-retired because no one is willing to pay him. Khabib, unlike these other wrestlers, has money so he doesn't need to fight (or in the case of guys like Ben, quitting fighting to earn a pay check).
Khabib, DC, and Stipe are all wrestlers without an all-around game. There's a reason professional boxing is popular all across the world––people love striking––but nowhere will you find wrestlers competing outside the Olympics/NCAA/etc.
MMA as a sport will always evolve as these fighters have to counter the person in the other corner. We're in a sad lull where we're waiting for someone to learn how to counter high level wrestling skills. Relying on phenoms like Ngannou and McGregor who have a puncher's chance on the feet is unsustainable.
I want to see Eddie vs Khabib. Eddie's got some things working against him (this is the last fight on his contract, he's getting old, etc.) but he's got the wrestling background with an all-around aptitude to create a game plan for everyone else to follow, even if he can't win.
Jozu
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I mean, I think there can be a happy medium of both Khabib/fighters like him, and opponents who are trying to beat him/them. You are right when you talk about guys trying to adapt and nullify a certain style or technique in order to survive and win. Thats been the case from the dawn of the sport, when each fighter specialized in one area and match makers simply put one "style" against another like a mad scientist and the fans were happy to see the results. At some point though, it just became the same cycle, and the UFC realized that the "mixed" in MMA is the answer, and guys started training in all kinds of different disciplines in their quest to become real mixed martial artists.
So yes, trainers and fighters everywhere should be figuring out ways to try and prevent Khabib from deploying that same gameplan every fight, and force him out of his comfort zone. (whether it is incredible takedown defense, scramble or well timed knees, there has to be something more than pure strength or athleticism to stop this guy)
But on the other hand, I think its on Khabib to evolve himself. I get the argument that these guys are putting their bodies on the line and risking everything so they should just do whatever it takes to win, regardless of what the fans want. But that argument doesnt bode well for selling tickets and growing a fanbase. If Khabib wants to ever be a superstar, he himself is going to have to add some type of new element to his approach that provides some level of excitement for the viewer. I dont know what that entails exactly, as his striking still looks crude as fuck, but maybe he could really develop his arm strength and ground striking to go along with his elite wrestling so when he takes guys down he can look to pound their skull into the mat instead of simply maintaining top control and collecting points as the clock runs out.
So I think its a mixture of both of those things. Khabib needs to add different elements to his game to increase his brand power, fanbase and reputation for putting on a show, and opponents need to focus on how to punish Khabib for NOT doing precisley that, and turning him into a one dimensional fighter who is eventually exposed by someone who has what it takes to pull it off.
edit: Im not trying to say Khabib is bad for the sport and isnt worthy of watching or soemthing, I love the guy and think he is one of the greatest lightweights in MMA history, he has also been very impressive in some of his fights (Barboza fight) where you were just wowed by his incredible wrestling and ability to just dominate his opponent. It can be compelling, yes. But overall, if he continues to just do what he did to Iaquinta, no one is going to fucking care anymore.
So yes, trainers and fighters everywhere should be figuring out ways to try and prevent Khabib from deploying that same gameplan every fight, and force him out of his comfort zone. (whether it is incredible takedown defense, scramble or well timed knees, there has to be something more than pure strength or athleticism to stop this guy)
But on the other hand, I think its on Khabib to evolve himself. I get the argument that these guys are putting their bodies on the line and risking everything so they should just do whatever it takes to win, regardless of what the fans want. But that argument doesnt bode well for selling tickets and growing a fanbase. If Khabib wants to ever be a superstar, he himself is going to have to add some type of new element to his approach that provides some level of excitement for the viewer. I dont know what that entails exactly, as his striking still looks crude as fuck, but maybe he could really develop his arm strength and ground striking to go along with his elite wrestling so when he takes guys down he can look to pound their skull into the mat instead of simply maintaining top control and collecting points as the clock runs out.
So I think its a mixture of both of those things. Khabib needs to add different elements to his game to increase his brand power, fanbase and reputation for putting on a show, and opponents need to focus on how to punish Khabib for NOT doing precisley that, and turning him into a one dimensional fighter who is eventually exposed by someone who has what it takes to pull it off.
edit: Im not trying to say Khabib is bad for the sport and isnt worthy of watching or soemthing, I love the guy and think he is one of the greatest lightweights in MMA history, he has also been very impressive in some of his fights (Barboza fight) where you were just wowed by his incredible wrestling and ability to just dominate his opponent. It can be compelling, yes. But overall, if he continues to just do what he did to Iaquinta, no one is going to fucking care anymore.
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Lanx
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The fans CANNOT see what khabib is doing in the ring, they have to HEAR it, they have to FEEL it.
Like, robbie vs. rory, robbie had that huge mouth cut and everyone is worried Big John gonna stop the fight, but Big John didn't even look at Robbie, he just kept his eyes on Rory the whole time, cuz he said the kind of dmg robbie was laying down was brutal, he was just waiting for Rory to give in. (re watch the later rounds, big john is just stalking rory)
You can feel that w/ robbie, khabib just looks like a discount russian backpack... WEE!!! and wears a stupid anime wig after he wins, fucking faggy.
Fight
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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In order to have a respect and appreciation for guys like Khabib or Ben Askren, I have to think about it like this... what if this were a fight to the death? Who would step in the ring with these guys? Any takers?
Sure, there are a lot of tough, flashy, and scary guys out there that can humiliate their opponents in spectacular ways... but sometimes that works brilliantly and other times it fails miserably.
The wrestlers are completely dominate because their skill works on everyone. The way they universally break their opponent's spirit demands respect. If you literally fought till one man overpowered the other, when everything was on the line, these would be the scariest guys.
Sure, there are a lot of tough, flashy, and scary guys out there that can humiliate their opponents in spectacular ways... but sometimes that works brilliantly and other times it fails miserably.
The wrestlers are completely dominate because their skill works on everyone. The way they universally break their opponent's spirit demands respect. If you literally fought till one man overpowered the other, when everything was on the line, these would be the scariest guys.
yamikazo
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The current top wrestlers (Stipe, DC, and Khabib) all don't seem to need to evolve themselves. You could argue Khabib has ben trying, his last two fights spending unnecessary time on his feet, but he's also the one with the least incentive. Stipe isn't in it for the money. He doesn't sell fights to the media, he doesn't hype leading up even that week. DC is about to retire. Khabib has more money than Trump.
What's the incentive on these guys to evolve themselves beyond winning if it's not money? It's the Mighty Mouse problem all over again. Legacy is cemented with winning to these guys, not style.
calhoonjugganaut
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Well, I can stop you right there. Jon Jones, love him or hate him wasn't even really considered being a great wrestler collegiatelly (however it's spelled) or anything. Yet he manhandles a guy that was an Olympic wrestler in Cormier. A guy that has done the same against much larger competition (Josh Barnett). These guys totally need to evolve themselves. Granted Cormier has some pretty good stand up and he has won several fights that way, but at the end of the day when a guy comes along in any weight division like Jon Jones, what you gonna do? WHAT YOU GONNA DO?!? You must evolve in this game for guys like that. If you've been wrestling all your adult life, make it to the grand stage of Olympic wrestling, and get done the way Cormier has against Jones, you aren't going to find new angles to take him down and keep him there. You need a new approach.
I'm hoping the Style Bender (Israel Adesanya), who fights this weekend, can evolve into a guy that's more than just bad ass at stand up. I hope he gets good at wrestling too. That guy has great potential if he can learn new games like that. But if he doesn't, he's gonna just be another Edson Barboza. Looking real good til he gets to the top guys. And wrestling is a very hard thing to learn, much like striking. Jon Jones is kind of the guy to look at as far as having everything figured out the way that it is right now.
***In other news, the UFC is looking a deal with NBC and ESPN splitting their investment and having fighters who belong to each brand exclusively outside of 6 PPV's a year and new weight classes for men at 165 and women at 105 to add more matches throughout the year. I wish they'd add a 225 lb. division, but I guess there isn't a lot of competition there right now that is world class enough warrant that.
Ameraves
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It makes sense to add a 165, but if they do that they should change WW to 175. Then you have a 10lb split between all the weight classes up through MW, and then the jump to LHW.
I would agree on the 225 class, except as you point out, there just isn't that much talent around that range right now. I mean the difference between LHW and HW is huge right now though.
I would agree on the 225 class, except as you point out, there just isn't that much talent around that range right now. I mean the difference between LHW and HW is huge right now though.
Lanx
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women at 105 makes sense, cuz women are generally much smaller and shorter, so atom weight is good for them. Its gonna be as boring as shit tho.
Goatface
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women mma just isn't that deep and 90% of the currently lineup is just blah
splitting up the fighter between networks just seems dumb
think $320m year, would put UFC ahead on NHL and about tied with Nascar as far a tv deals go
doesn't seem like a smart investment with UFC's recent rating decline
splitting up the fighter between networks just seems dumb
think $320m year, would put UFC ahead on NHL and about tied with Nascar as far a tv deals go
doesn't seem like a smart investment with UFC's recent rating decline
calhoonjugganaut
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There are certain things I like and don't like. Goatface kind of shares the same sentiments as me No one is going to care about a women's 105 division. Shit they barely care now about the divisions in place. They haven't even established the 125 division.
What is the purpose of a men's division that is 5 lbs less than their welterweight division though? 5 lbs. Shit is stupid. Add a Middle Heavyweight division at 225 before you do that. The LW and WW divisions aren't ever going to be that stacked and really they aren't that stacked right now. The worse thing the UFC could do is add more titles and split shit like is being suggested. Cheaper UFC PPV's are cool, or not so many a year, but they are approaching this shit totally wrong if they go with that deal. It's like a Raw/Smackdown deal...c'mon.
What is the purpose of a men's division that is 5 lbs less than their welterweight division though? 5 lbs. Shit is stupid. Add a Middle Heavyweight division at 225 before you do that. The LW and WW divisions aren't ever going to be that stacked and really they aren't that stacked right now. The worse thing the UFC could do is add more titles and split shit like is being suggested. Cheaper UFC PPV's are cool, or not so many a year, but they are approaching this shit totally wrong if they go with that deal. It's like a Raw/Smackdown deal...c'mon.
calhoonjugganaut
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Lanx
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middle heavyweight? UFC can't even retain the heavies, you just had shit mitrione vs. roy at bellator 194
and they lost cro crop to bellator cuz of that stupid doping slap.
and they JUST fucked over barnnet for TWO FUCKING YEARS, and he was CLEARED! and still NOT ALLOWED to fight in UFC cuz he didn't do the 6months of tests.
UFC treats their heavies dirty, and they're the most marketable ones, the goodie oldies.
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calhoonjugganaut
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I'd just rather a weight division separated by 20 and 40 lbs than one separated by 5.
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jayrebb
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Great post. When the UFC (Forbes already had an article criticizing the lack of financial success last year) is forced to reckon with declining profits-- they will have no one to blame but themselves.
Was Goldberg past his sell date? Maybe. But that was also the voice of the UFC. Most people feel the theatrical production level has taken a nose dive without Goldberg there. Do spergs on the internet care about theatrical value? No. But I'd wager Goldberg being kicked to the curb is just another straw on a very large pile of back-breaking items. Its still the voice of the UFC. What you do in that case is phase him out. The abrupt change, combined with the lack of cards last year, amounted to a double whammy. Ari Emmanuel isn't doing himself any favors with his "cost-cutting" initiatives.
calhoonjugganaut
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I don't see Goldie tying into the grand scheme of things. Anik does a good job. Had they got rid of Rogan then that would have been a big deal. Goldie doesn't matter. He's not a Mauro Ranallo and no one was hoping he'd stay. The UK cards with guys with British accents are some of the better commenting that we get throughout the year. Fuck that Grisham guy they tried out though. Did not like that guy at all.