Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Gravel said:

Oof, I considered wizard for the next test. Looked at the spells on the wiki and no fucking thanks. To me it looks like they do marginally more damage than my fighter at level 12, but with the bonus of having to sit there and meditate for hours to get all the mana back to actually do it. Those nukes should be double what they are now.

My fighter hits for like 30 every 2 or 3 seconds (assuming I don't miss), plus my rent which is another 20-30 per every 8(?) seconds. And that's constant. Wizard lvl 12 nuke is 80. How many of those nukes do you suppose they can throw out before running out of mana?

Anyway, I agree with Quaid here, the first thing I noticed from those stats was it seems like people try it for a couple hours and then bounce out. That "friction" that people keep mentioning is way too much.

Click to expand...

Actually i think the vision for Wizard (and Cleric - ugh) is that they melee quite a bit. Pretty sure they have an ability that applies +dmg stacks on melee hits. Still not sure you avoid medding much though, because i can’t recall if they get some kind of mana recovery mechanic.

Friction? Nah.. I just didnt want to invest into a game that is going to wipe its characters and is considered, largely, unfinished. Props to those that do dump like 80 hours into it - that helps the game. But Im not diving all in until early access at the very earliest.

Anyone level monk or rogue? Rogue once they get backstab I know will pick up, but monk might do it all better and easier.

I only played 1 hour to see some changes but plan to play ‘full time’ when EA releases.

Daidraco said:

Friction? Nah.. I just didnt want to invest into a game that is going to wipe its characters and is considered, largely, unfinished. Props to those that do dump like 80 hours into it - that helps the game. But Im not diving all in until early access at the very earliest.

Click to expand...

Did you play more than 0 and fewer than 5 hours last playtest?

I think people are attributing far too much of their own bias to the under 5 hour number. I'm sure some people loaded up lost their lvl 2 corpse and quit - but I wouldnt think that level of aversion to challenge and lack of curiosity is as high as some peoples on the FoH boards.

Gravel said:

Oof, I considered wizard for the next test. Looked at the spells on the wiki and no fucking thanks. To me it looks like they do marginally more damage than my fighter at level 12, but with the bonus of having to sit there and meditate for hours to get all the mana back to actually do it. Those nukes should be double what they are now.

My fighter hits for like 30 every 2 or 3 seconds (assuming I don't miss), plus my rent which is another 20-30 per every 8(?) seconds. And that's constant. Wizard lvl 12 nuke is 80. How many of those nukes do you suppose they can throw out before running out of mana?

Anyway, I agree with Quaid here, the first thing I noticed from those stats was it seems like people try it for a couple hours and then bounce out. That "friction" that people keep mentioning is way too much.

Click to expand...

Fighters are just absolute monsters currently, i dont think any class touches the amount of dps they can pump in in a short period of time.

Wizards do get a self only mana regen buff and also a substantial spell haste buff, and are really strong at soloing - which is something the fighter cannot do efficiently.

I assumed all melee were about on par with that. My comment was more about caster DPS looking incredibly weak.

Gravel said:

I assumed all melee were about on par with that. My comment was more about caster DPS looking incredibly weak.

Click to expand...

I think you are correct, and IMO they are overcorrecting the issue of classic EQ which is why even make a melee until velious or luclin.

Having caster dps be less than melee in a group environment while casters also have the option to solo (melee not so much, some can but not as well) i think is a good tradeoff. EQ classic casters were just better at everything always with exception of monk when epics came out.

Also i would assume that melee having to be in the thick of it will probably have some drawbacks with multi group or raid content later on. Well see.

Sloan said:

I think people are attributing far too much of their own bias to the under 5 hour number. I'm sure some people loaded up lost their lvl 2 corpse and quit - but I wouldnt think that level of aversion to challenge and lack of curiosity is as high as some peoples on the FoH boards.

Click to expand...

What’s your hypothesis on why nearly 50% of players who tried M&M last week quit before level 5?

I was out murdering skellies along the border with Fallen Pass (I think), and a big fighter came up and wanted to group and said I could keep all the plunder. Wow they are really good at killing fast.

Burns said:

I think the wiki was showing them and rogues being rather incomplete. Wonder if that affected many people tying them. The main website says that they are not solo friendly at all, so that would also hurt their numbers for something like this, whereas in a full game, more people might play them once guilds get truly formed.

Click to expand...

Rogue doesn't "feel" incomplete to me, but it is true that poisoncrafting isn't really fleshed out yet so we are missing out on that. Rogue right now is being held back by weapon base damage. We can't equip the two handers with the fat damage on them and base damage is pretty much king. My autos as a 14 Rogue hit for 18 on a max roll, and the offhand weapon attack is fairly inconsistent. Maybe unlocking double attack at 15 improves our damage but the class feels "complete," I think it just needs a numbers adjustment.

The main utility for Rogue is their interrupts. By level 7, they have a kick, a short term mez, and a short term stun. It's feasible to be able to interrupt four spellcasts by rotating those CDs before needing your allies to jump in.

mkopec said:

My 2c? I think the vanilla WoW is the perfect mix of things if you want that "classic" vibe.

Click to expand...

I'll never understand why people enjoy solo questing for leveling in MMOs. Why do you log onto a multiplayer game to play by yourself?

Hatorade said:

Anyone level monk or rogue? Rogue once they get backstab I know will pick up, but monk might do it all better and easier.

Click to expand...

Rogue has backstab starting at level 1. Ambush at level 10 usually deals as much damage as backstab, sometimes a little more, but it's on a 60 second cooldown. Sometimes you might hold your CDs so you can burst down a monk enemy before they can use Mend, or you can quickly kill a low HP enemy before they run to their allies.

Gravel said:

Oof, I considered wizard for the next test. Looked at the spells on the wiki and no fucking thanks. To me it looks like they do marginally more damage than my fighter at level 12, but with the bonus of having to sit there and meditate for hours to get all the mana back to actually do it. Those nukes should be double what they are now.

Click to expand...

Remember, Wizards can also use greatswords so in between those spell casts, you can melee almost as hard as a Fighter. Mana regen isn't lightning speed but it is faster than you'd expect, especially with a Bard or Chanter.

Quaid said:

What’s your hypothesis on why nearly 50% of players who tried M&M last week quit before level 5?

Click to expand...

Buncha quest marker following bitch ass casuals who can't play 10 hours/day. Total losers.

I logged on for an hour. I don't plan on investing much time into a character that will just be wiped when EA comes out.

Kriptini said:

Rogue doesn't "feel" incomplete to me, but it is true that poisoncrafting isn't really fleshed out yet so we are missing out on that. Rogue right now is being held back by weapon base damage. We can't equip the two handers with the fat damage on them and base damage is pretty much king. My autos as a 14 Rogue hit for 18 on a max roll, and the offhand weapon attack is fairly inconsistent. Maybe unlocking double attack at 15 improves our damage but the class feels "complete," I think it just needs a numbers adjustment.

The main utility for Rogue is their interrupts. By level 7, they have a kick, a short term mez, and a short term stun. It's feasible to be able to interrupt four spellcasts by rotating those CDs before needing your allies to jump in.



I'll never understand why people enjoy solo questing for leveling in MMOs. Why do you log onto a multiplayer game to play by yourself?



Rogue has backstab starting at level 1. Ambush at level 10 usually deals as much damage as backstab, sometimes a little more, but it's on a 60 second cooldown. Sometimes you might hold your CDs so you can burst down a monk enemy before they can use Mend, or you can quickly kill a low HP enemy before they run to their allies.

Click to expand...

All I meant was that when looking at classes on the Wiki, according to it, the rogue stops getting abilities at 12 and the archer at 8, whereas other classes get stuff all the way to 60. So it gives the impression to anyone just perusing the classes, that maybe those classes are currently underdeveloped. Hence possibly affecting how many people chose those classes.

I wasn't interested in any of the other pure melee, so didn't look at them, but they also don't get anything above level 12 atm (according to the wiki).

As for solo questing, questing in the game is shit, just like it was shit in Everquest. So it's solo grind or group grind. I don't usually want to commit to sitting at a camp for hours on end anymore and taking frequent AFK breaks while grouped feels like I am taking advantage (being an asshole).

Quaid said:

What’s your hypothesis on why nearly 50% of players who tried M&M last week quit before level 5?

Click to expand...

If I had to guess, id say a decent amount of those quit for the reason you are saying. However, alot of that is controlled for because most people trying it out have probably looked into it or watched youtube videos about it before joining in. I have had a couple friends who just dont want to even try it for this reason, as they have decided without even playing that its not their style of MMO. Same thing goes for ashes of creation, with alot of people convinced they dont want to even try it because all they see are PVP videos when they google it .... when 90% of the game is actually a mix of EQ and WoW style pve.

From my own direct interactions with the groups of people I hang out with, however, most also play EQ, WoW, etc. and have other time commitments or their 'serious' game and dont want to spend too much time on a short playtest...so they loaded up ran around got to lvl 3 or 4 to see if anything changed and logged off. I have quite a bit of friends that are waiting to go all in on EA but dont even want to play the closed alpha right now, let alone couple day open alpha seriously, but still log in for a few on their toons every open playtest. Some people just dont want to invest time into a short playtest but want to load it up, run around for a few and keep tabs on how its going. I would wager this is the largest pool in this group.

Im moreso ok with just saying i dont know if i dont have all the data though. I have strong biases and they definitely affect any speculation i do

Oh also this

Quaid said:
What’s your hypothesis on why nearly 50% of players who tried M&M last week quit before level 5?

Click to expand...

Buncha quest marker following bitch ass casuals who can't play 10 hours/day. Total losers.

Burns said:

As for solo questing, questing in the game is shit, just like it was shit in Everquest. So it's solo grind or group grind. I don't usually want to commit to sitting at a camp for hours on end anymore and taking frequent AFK breaks while grouped feels like I am taking advantage (being an asshole).

Click to expand...

This is why i usually roll necro. If kids are asleep etc. then i group up and whatnot, but I short afk alot and dont feel like its fair to a group. Can pop FD and afk whenever i want. Also why I despise the WoW constantly moving style of lvling compared to the EQ sit at camp and chill style.