Woefully Inept
Ssraeszha Raider
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This one's really going to tweak your balls. They aren't planning any raids for release at all. They are focusing completely on small group content.
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Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
- Start date
ili
Blackwing Lair Raider
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From what Jeff Butler said in that 3-hour interview with Shawn, Brad wasn't truly happy with EQ, anyway. Brad wanted the game to be about exploration, more of along the lines of a MUD. The game didn't have to be hard but punishing, if that makes sense. The way MUDs were. Where you'd learn the game by exploration, you fall into a death trap and lose your shit, but now you know where that death trap is, etc. Shit being " hard " or " challenging " to get was never the goal. Not like any of that matters anyway. EQ is what it was, and people liked it and remembered it for what it was, even if it wasn't truly what Brad wanted. Pretty sure the " vision " was never about sitting in the same spot for hours and days on end, grinding exp and loot, but that's what people remember.
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strange. I didn't expect so many EQ haters to be in this thread.
Godspeed to the Niche Cult. Appealing to the mass market is the road to mediocrity
Godspeed to the Niche Cult. Appealing to the mass market is the road to mediocrity
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Cabales
Trakanon Raider
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I don't know if it's fair to categorize them as EQ haters. They're just pointing out times have changed, the genre has evolved, and the original audience has aged. I think those are facts, not hating. That doesn't mean there's not room for a game catering to folks who want something that adheres to EQ style gameplay, but I think it's pretty reasonable to call it a niche at this point.
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Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I loved EQ but I would not say it was a flawless game and certainly don’t have the time to devote to it that I did when I was literally fucking 11 years old.
I’m interested to see what they do the build/improve upon it because as someone that hasn’t followed this game closely it seems like they are reallllly just copying it with a new engine and slightly different lore.
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What is a better system though?
I think people loved EQ because it was a massively flawed game lol.
I think they’ve said they’ll probably be a pvp ruleset server (maybe other rulesets too) if demand is there, but nothing is being designed or balanced with pvp in mind.
As others have mentioned, the stated gameplay focus is small group content. Not massive raids.
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This is a passion project. Telling them to instead make what they think the market wants in order to make a profit is a silly. Profit isn't the goal.
Tiny studios/teams on a shoestring or nonexistent budget are forced to do something different/unique in the first place. They can't make a 'mainstream' MMORPG (i.e. clone WoW) and be successful. I'm not sure why this thread is filling up with 15 year old arguments about how WoW killed EQ because people have jobs now as if EQ players didn't have jobs.
Tiny studios/teams on a shoestring or nonexistent budget are forced to do something different/unique in the first place. They can't make a 'mainstream' MMORPG (i.e. clone WoW) and be successful. I'm not sure why this thread is filling up with 15 year old arguments about how WoW killed EQ because people have jobs now as if EQ players didn't have jobs.
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DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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From Software shows there are a lot of gamers that are willing to not be all about instant gratification. Translating that kind of gameplay into a MMO seems pretty difficult but I don't think it's impossible that some gamers out there are willing to play things that aren't instantly fully rewarding. Someone just has to find the right hook.
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That doesn't bother me even a little. I guess my argument boils down to what happened with EQs servers with many different rulesets. I always played on a non pvp competitive server with no calendar. Now I'll be looking for the same and I expect to be frustrated with camping, assuming they don't have instancing, and that's just fine.
The main thing I'm curious about in this game is how successful they are going to be and how they handle huge success if it happens. I know that isn't their goal. I'm in either way
Kaines
Potato Supreme
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And if the developers don't intend to make this their career, then good on them for having such a wonderful HOBBY... but I doubt that is the case.
Hateyou
Not Great, Not Terrible
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You can also make a sizable profit to keep the game and your personal lives afloat without wasteful spending, or hiring a multi-hundred person studio, just to make a game that simply doesn't require more than 20-30 people to develop and mantain.
The company might not have Activision Blizzard WoW 2005 levels of popularity, but it doesn't need that to sustain itself if it's smart about whom it hires.
Revenue share also becomes easier if there are simply less people working on a project. Niche World Cult said that their goal is to do this part-time until they get funding, be it from the right investors, self-funded by having enough saved at their actual day jobs, or by the community in some sort of crowdfunded effort, but only once they have a viable product.
Their game is subscription based without microtransactions which makes the revenue predictable at the end of every 30 day cycle. That's reasonable and if you keep the team small but highly skilled and focused, you'll be able to succeed within the niche - or at least, that's the theory.
I think it's a sound theory considering how far I was able to get as a 1-person team making a proof of concept MMO using Unity a few years back. It took a long time to get something that even had some semblance of architecture, but it was doable, albeit at the cost of my sanity.
Let's also not forget that Tyen almost had EQBrowser and I wrote some rudimentary netcode that made it possible to have basic MMO features.
If Tyen can do it, imagine what someone else could do that actually had a skilled team behind their project.
The company might not have Activision Blizzard WoW 2005 levels of popularity, but it doesn't need that to sustain itself if it's smart about whom it hires.
Revenue share also becomes easier if there are simply less people working on a project. Niche World Cult said that their goal is to do this part-time until they get funding, be it from the right investors, self-funded by having enough saved at their actual day jobs, or by the community in some sort of crowdfunded effort, but only once they have a viable product.
Their game is subscription based without microtransactions which makes the revenue predictable at the end of every 30 day cycle. That's reasonable and if you keep the team small but highly skilled and focused, you'll be able to succeed within the niche - or at least, that's the theory.
I think it's a sound theory considering how far I was able to get as a 1-person team making a proof of concept MMO using Unity a few years back. It took a long time to get something that even had some semblance of architecture, but it was doable, albeit at the cost of my sanity.
Let's also not forget that Tyen almost had EQBrowser and I wrote some rudimentary netcode that made it possible to have basic MMO features.
If Tyen can do it, imagine what someone else could do that actually had a skilled team behind their project.
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ili
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I'm glad these guys are doing this because, it will show how much interest there is left in a 99 EQ type game. I have my doubts. And I have said before that I hope this is 100% a passion project and is not something that they are hoping is going to pay the bills. I always wondered how many people would play p99 if it had a monthly fee of 15 dollars. EQ TLP's aren't really 99 Everquest anymore, and I feel like it's mostly the same people playing them every TLP, so you can't really go by that. EQ TLPS are more or less EQ-light and like any modern day mmo. exp pots, no corpse runs, in game maps, fast leveling, cash shop, etc. When Jeff said he would never make a game like 99 EQ again, or like this game, in the interview with Shawn, you could see his disappointment.
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Groove
Trakanon Raider
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Actually I believe there is going to be raid content at release. I listen to every one of the podcasts and read everything at least alovingrobot has written in the last year. Apologies for not being able to find or link the exact quote, but it's something along the lines of "some people will be angry when they find out that by different definitional standards there will be some multi-group content in game". Again, I only recall and am unable to link, but I *think* Shawn alluded to something along the lines of a zone-wide roaming giant rather than a traditional raid zone. Again, the game is years out, and things can change, but iirc those were Shawn's last "official" words on the subject, and of course he is always up front with the caveat that basically any-and-everything can change during development to release.
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Da fuck are you talking about? This generation plays fucking Minecraft! If you don't think they would waste countless hours camping one spot to get ultra rare loot, you know jack shit about this generation of gamers.
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The initial debate was about instancing or equivalent systems, basically allowing more people to access the same content at the same time.
There is a difference between camping something for yourself, and being forced to watch other people get ahead of you while you are forced to do nothing or other things. This is especially ironic, because the access to said content comes down to the choice of server/shard on the character creation screen, so it's not that the content doesn't allow parallel access to it in the first place.
What most people here don't seem to realize, is that this problem exists because of both camping (in contrast to the much touted exploration), and most iconic/unique items come from only one specific (and rare) source. Here's some thoughts for you:
- WoW (of all things!) knew about the problem in their open world, probably due to their reliance on quests for progression. They made sure that for most quests where you have to kill multiple mobs or collect multiple items, they have at least two locations. Sure, one may not be optimal, and this is not for all quests, but it exists.
- How about you make crafting a bigger part of the game, and able to create items as powerful as those rare drops from group/raid content. Make high crafting skill and rare artifacts a requirement, but don't require materials from the same source as the original item.
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I'd like to point out that From Software had decades to both perfect their formula, and build up hype. Elden Ring didn't suddenly materialize. Do you remember Eternal Ring?
I would toss this project some $$ and plan to when the time comes. I am excited to hear it will primarily be group content. I don’t mind a raid here and there but to lock yourself into raiding every other damn night gets old after a while. Hopefully they don’t plan to have equipment transmogging. I hated that, I loved old EQ when you could see someone wearing an item and you knew what the item was.
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