Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Sylas

Sylas

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thats cool, you either brought a group with you or you are a liar. Biggest stretch maybe you played on the retard server where everyone was just shitty at the game?

Locnar said:
The afk in a digital ocean to travel to new lands is the barrier. Its the challenge and investment in Time to get to somewhere good that you can monopolize.
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Ahh I see, you are just trolling. Well played sir you got me
 
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Flobee

Flobee

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Sylas said:
Ahh there it is, the surest sign you're dealing with a clueless charlatan.

I've posted about this phrase before, I think in this thread. Some people believe game design is some esoteric eldritch wisdom from beyond the void, wholly unknowable, developers are just magicians throwing shit against a wall seeing what sticks in hopes of recreating this lightning in a bottle.

That explains why you are in here trying to defend every retarded idea any designer ever scribbled across a napkin somewhere. You, much like the amateur fans who are making this game, haven't a fucking clue about what makes immersive mmo worlds. You don't understand game design and you don't understand human psychology so you just keep trying what you think will work this time that will give your 2 inches a little chub, but it always fails. Try again but this time get rid of maps and add 4 hour boat rides, that will surely work this time amirite?

Thing is, game design is not hard. It's simple and its solved, been solved for decades or longer.
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I'll take one last swing at this then let you condescend to someone else for a while.

Before WoW MMOs heavily used both positive and negative reinforcement to incentive players engage with the world in particular ways. Sometimes very poorly as so many of you have pointed out. One of the most effective things WoW did was largely remove all negative reinforcement from the game. It was all carrot and no stick.

When people whine about wanting an old school experience this is part of what they're referring to.

I'm personally open to seeing how this game tries to use a more balanced carrot and stick approach as it opens up a ton of design space that was lost when negative reinforcement was largely abandoned. On any specific example (boat rides, darkness, fizzles, whatever) you may be right that it's dumb but it's a largely untouched area for MMOs in recent years.

When you're whining that a specific design is stupid I don't think you're considering the whole system, just that one aspect in a vacuum.

Saying game design is solved is laughable. If that was the case why are all these modern games so bad? They just need to contract you to lay it out for them? Only solved thing is how to sell loot boxes to addicts
 
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Gravel

Gravel

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Locnar said:
Wait, you are complaining about fizzling? Its a direct check against your school of magic skill. Your skill evocation sucks and you were too cheap to train it but STILL want to be like my fully trained Wiz and nuke shit with the latest spells without fizzling and therefore being mana efficient? Hell no. I put work into my wiz and so yes he should be more efficient than your scrub.

This all boils down to communism in online gaming. Everyone wants to be the same with no effort. Fuck that.

We need ALL the old systems, the more the better. We need myrid ways to differentiate ourselves from others/scrubs.
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Tell me you haven't played this game without telling me you haven't played this game.

Your "maxed skill" means exactly jack shit and squat in MnM. Enjoy fizzling your lvl 4 gate spell 5 times in a row.
 
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Kithani

Kithani

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Flobee said:
When people whine about wanting an old school experience this is part of what they're referring to.
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You are wrong, this might be what YOU want, but I too would like an old school game, and that is not what I mean at all.

I’d just like a game with more static dungeons, first person gameplay, grouping and killing mobs.
 
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Locnar

Locnar

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Kithani said:
Wanting a game designed such that one can only “thrive” in it while living off on SSI/Disability welfare while complaining about communism lol
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Why SSI/Disability? How about instead a inquisitive mind, able to delay immediate gratification for more/rare reward later, fearlessness, adventure spirit vs. pussy that is afraid of corpse runs, etc.etc.?
 
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Quaid

Quaid

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Locnar said:
Except Vanguard had some of the same things and magic before they fucked it all up and added fast travel everywhere. You'd be out in some obscure part of the world with a handful of others who did the same, and form a little Gilligan's island community for a few levels as you all worked the area for a few days with the same people day after day.

This was a thing before fast travel, even in Vanguard. Fast travel destroys the immersion of the world and destroys regional community that big open world is SUPPOSED to cultivate.
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Vanguard hahahaha

Ok you’re trolling. Nice job.
 
Kithani

Kithani

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Locnar said:
Why SSI/Disability? How about instead an inquisitive mind, able to delay immediate gratification for more/rare reward later, fearlessness, adventure spirit vs. pussy that is afraid of corpse runs, etc.etc.?
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I’m just not as brave as you sir Lancelot
 
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Flobee

Flobee

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Kithani said:
You are wrong, this might be what YOU want, but I too would like an old school game, and that is not what I mean at all.

I’d just like a game with more static dungeons, first person gameplay, grouping and killing mobs.
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Fair. Achieving a game that properly incentives grouping in static dungeons and forces first person... Well I would argue you have to make some very specific design choices that would be unpopular here.
 
Locnar

Locnar

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Sylas said:
thats cool, you either brought a group with you or you are a liar. Biggest stretch maybe you played on the retard server where everyone was just shitty at the game?


Ahh I see, you are just trolling. Well played sir you got me
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Try Rallos Zek , which just added to all the immersion as choosing a zone was more than just "this gives me the easiest xp per hour".
 
Kithani

Kithani

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Flobee said:
Fair. Achieving a game that properly incentives grouping in static dungeons and forces first person... Well I would argue you have to make some very specific design choices that would be unpopular here.
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Agreed.

It’s pretty funny actually that 80% of “hardcore EQ players” that try TAKP immediately quit because it uses an older client that’s too classic and won’t let them scroll out with the mouse lol

Nirgon Nirgon where you at on this, third person is pretty unimmersive IMO
 
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Locnar

Locnar

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I have not played MnM yet, its just I've seen all this bullshit before over these decades. I've seen demands to "remove this, its tedious" break down EQ, then Vanguard, then Shadowbane. Until nothing is left but a hollow piece of shit.

There are tons of MMOs out there (that no one plays) with all that "tedious" shit thrown out. We need ONE pure throwback, untouched by "busy Dads with real lives and kids" and their pussy talk that will make the game boring after 6 weeks.

All you "busy dads" out there: try WoW.
 
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Kithani

Kithani

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Locnar said:
I have not played MnM yet, its just I've seen all this bullshit before over these decades. I've seen demands to "remove this, its tedious" break down EQ, then Vanguard, then Shadowbane. Until nothing is left but a hollow piece of shit.

There are tons of MMOs out there (that no one plays) with all that "tedious" shit thrown out. We need ONE pure throwback, untouched by "busy Dads with real lives and kids" and their pussy talk that will make the game boring after 6 weeks.

All you "busy dads" out there: try WoW.
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If only we can have a game that brings back the spirit of such smash hits as p99 EverQuest, Vanguard and Shadowbane in 2025 targeted at a group of 40-50 year olds without wives or kids then surely a critical mass of players will be achieved lining up to pay $15/mo
 
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Locnar

Locnar

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Kithani said:
Agreed.

It’s pretty funny actually that 80% of “hardcore EQ players” that try TAKP immediately quit because it uses an older client that’s too classic and won’t let them scroll out with the mouse lol

Nirgon Nirgon where you at on this, third person is pretty unimmersive IMO
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Forced first person increases immersion, makes you be more situationally aware, gives ambient noise an ACTUAL in game purpose, allows for spells/items to help out with increasing awareness (like the old enchanter Sentinel spell..), foster team play as some must keep look out while others mediate in a book, etc.

Its another mechanism to help separate the superior player from the shitty/lazy ones and is needed.

p.s. I played for years on EQmac and then later TAKP, both because EQlive fell victim to "busy dads" and lost all its cool hard coreness.
 
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Locnar

Locnar

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Kithani said:
If only we can have a game that brings back the spirit of such smash hits as p99 EverQuest, Vanguard and Shadowbane in 2025 targeted at a group of 40-50 year olds without wives or kids then surely a critical mass of players will be achieved lining up to pay $15/mo
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Don't need a critical mass, those people have WoW. Just give us ONE hardcore 1999 style game for the niche that wants it without "busy dads" fucking it all up like we saw in 1999, 2000, 2001 and whenever Vanguard came out.
 
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Sythrak

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Sylas said:
you must of played a class that could solo then.

cus march 1999 the game was fucking solved for every class that required a group, we didn't have the option to just putz around willy nilly we had to go where people were. good races/elves did crushbone>unrest>mistmoore>guk and evil races it was nro>highpass>aviaks/treants>guk

I saw every single zone as a rogue I could sneak around and they were all fucking empty except maybe a necro or druid soloing. Gorge of king Xorbb? fucking empty. lake rathe? empty. everything was empty except for a few solo camps like guards in butcherblock mtns or named camps. hell most of the fucking dungeons were empty except maybe someone camping a specific named. Runnyeye? Najena? Befallen? Sol A? Upper Guk? fucking empty. I spent a fuckton of time in befallen doing corpse recoveries for idiots who didn't know if you zone into a dungeon and there's no one there, there's a reason.
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I'd argue this was just poor design. If you concentrate all the good loot and exp in a few areas what did they think was going to happen? Guk was just a loot pinata compared to other areas. Look at najena, everyone was there camping for jboots until they took it out. One item can make or break an area if its good enough.
 
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Araxen

Araxen

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Sythrak said:
I'd argue this was just poor design. If you concentrate all the good loot and exp in a few areas what did they think was going to happen? Guk was just a loot pinata compared to other areas. Look at najena, everyone was there camping for jboots until they took it out. One item can make or break an area if its good enough.
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CT is a good example too. They took out Rubicite and the place became a ghost town overnight. It was a stupid decision to remove it. .
 
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Gravel

Gravel

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Fake news. I was told people were farming all those places and it's just my imagination that everyone congregated in a handful of zones while the rest of EQ was deserted.
 
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Nirgon

Nirgon

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Kithani said:
Agreed.

It’s pretty funny actually that 80% of “hardcore EQ players” that try TAKP immediately quit because it uses an older client that’s too classic and won’t let them scroll out with the mouse lol

Nirgon Nirgon where you at on this, third person is pretty unimmersive IMO
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Third person is for people who wanna make barbie dolls, stare at them and not be immersed tbh

Its a "for casuals" thing that they demand or will quit like so many other things

They take your game hostage then quit in 2 months
 
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