Quaid
Trump's Staff
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And here we are back to the point of us MNM detractors. The only thing we’re asking for is Vanilla WoW with pull & grind style dungeons and more thoughtful itemization. None of the other horse shit is necessary.
Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
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And here we are back to the point of us MNM detractors. The only thing we’re asking for is Vanilla WoW with pull & grind style dungeons and more thoughtful itemization. None of the other horse shit is necessary.
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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This is another area where I think the EQ nostalgia goggles really distort the picture. Saying WoW didn't facilitate community because you couldn't sit around chatting mid-dungeon is kind of missing the point. WoW's design encouraged playing together. Fast-paced dungeons, battlegrounds, raids, world PvP, etc. Not standing around in a swamp typing essays in /ooc while waiting for mana to regen. The fact that you had "hour-long conversations" in MnM isn't a strength of design like you think it is, it's a byproduct of downtime and pacing so slow that you have nothing else to do. That's just boredom forcing interaction, not organically creating community.
WoW had cities buzzing with social life, guild structures that made grouping easy, and global events (world bosses, city raids, AQ opening) that pulled strangers together in ways EQ never dreamed of. The conversations you remember in EQ? They happened because the game trapped you in long, empty stretches of tedium. The connections in WoW came while playing the game itself. That's a fundamental difference in design philosophy.
And let's be honest: the fact you didn't raid or participate in WoW's larger social loops doesn't mean the community wasn't there. It just means you didn't engage with it - likely because you seem like one of the diehards who demands devs force others to play/interact with you. EQ forced you to lean on others for survival. WoW gave you choices, and for many players, that felt like freedom instead of a leash. That's why millions flocked to it, and why EQ's model never scaled beyond its niche.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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I still play classic EQ. If you have time to chat much in a group you almost certainly fucking suck at the game.
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Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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Hence my post about it being interesting that those clamoring the loudest for a "return to EQ" are always the ones who sucked the most at the game.
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Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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It's funny, I can't remember if it's you or Quaid who keeps saying it, but it sounds like a lot of these people just want forced chat rooms because no one will talk to them.
Sitting there around a campfire not actually playing the game, and chatting because there's nothing else to do, isn't exactly compelling gameplay and I have no idea why that'd be the selling point of the game whatsoever.
And that's what they're building the entire game around. A chat room.
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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They wax poetic about "community" when what they really mean is sitting around twiddling their thumbs because the game is so slow it forces small talk.
And the wild part is, they act like this is some "lost art" of MMO design. No, it's not. It's just downtime artificially inflated to manufacture "interaction." Strip away the nostalgia, and what you're left with is a chat lobby where occasionally you press auto-attack. If your big selling point is that your game is fun because people are forced to talk while waiting for respawns or mana regen, then maybe you don't actually have a game.
At that point, just be honest: you don't want a modern MMO, you want a nostalgia-fueled Discord server where you can roleplay about curing wolf rabies and fetching corpses. Which is fine, but let's not pretend that's compelling game design in 2025.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Yah they keep saying ‘third place’, which i guess when seen through that lens a lot of these calls make sense. Literally force people to chat with each other by creating enormous spans of downtime and tedium. Just feels like they’re taking it way too far, and gameplay is a distant priority.
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me too, but probably not for the same reason.
These "devs" are fucking morons and so are the faggots like you asking for this shit. I hope they get exactly what they ask for and watch this shit get shut down in 2 weeks when they launch for 12 whole players. And no steam so no refunds, rofl
that's not to say that the other side is much better.
All of you guys in this thread trying to reason with these people are just as retarded. The 'devs" don't have a clue and clearly aren't listening. stop trying to save this game, let them have it exactly how they want it.
I know i'm sort of a broken record here, but when people tell you who they are, believe them. The "devs" have told you they don't know what the fuck they are doing and have no idea what made older games good, listen to them.
Said the same shit about Epoch devs and was proven right fucking instantly and repeatedly, they didn't know what the fuck they were doing, had to beg another private server to bail them out, and then immediately cucked 2 weeks later to a C&D. All those idiots who thought those dev's had a clue should thank their lucky stars that a real team of competent developers took over or they would have shut that server down (assuming they ever got it off the ground, which again, Epoch devs were incompetent morons so highly doubt they would of ever launched)
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Flobee
Vyemm Raider
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I hope you guys are hate playing the game and complaining here the entire time, and I hope you enjoy it too.
Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Flobee
Vyemm Raider
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Nah, but you sound like you're hate playing it. You were like what? Level 17? You're clearly having some fun
Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I've stated many times I've had fun with the game. The problem is all that "friction" we keep talking about ends up being 80% of the time in the game. The 20% isn't fun enough to overcome that and make me play. So I don't.
Which is why I'm so vocal about the shit that sucks. It sucks A LOT. If they could unfuck their game, it might have some legs. If they don't, well, I'm certainly not going to play it. Seems like most other people won't either.
I'm sure the couple thousand masochists that are into it will circle jerk about how amazing the game is, like they are now. That fine.
Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I may fart around on it if there's a class that ends up being good at soloing like the EQ Necro, just don't have time for it as an adult tbh. Miss the olden days being a kid but looking back I wasted way more time on EQ than I should have, still turned out fine though so who cares.
I still want the game to succeed and be a hit if only so I’ll have something to do if/when I do have more free time in my life.
I still want the game to succeed and be a hit if only so I’ll have something to do if/when I do have more free time in my life.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Of course I'm having some fun with it. I prefer this style of game. I want it to succeed. I want Shawn and Nick to make $200k a year in a state of self directed pseudo-retirement and I want their wives to drive nice little leased BMW Crossover SUVs on their way to Whole Foods. I want them to have Goldendoodles and a big porch and nice piece of land where they have old peach trees or some shit. I want them to have the energy and material resources to keep this game healthy with content and a robust population for decades, and I want them to take a stab at Planetside too.
I just think they're being extremists, and if they backed off even 5% on some of this stuff they could increase their potential audience 10x. Even that amount would still be niche. Release on Steam; cut it out with the spellbook shit; raids should be a mix of instanced and contested overworld targets; there should be an auction house; every class should be able to gate; put in a damned UI compass; improve the newbie experience with more clever tutorial-like quests. A miniscule number of classic era MMO players would have a problem with these things, and if MNM had opened with them we wouldn't be hearing a peep of opposition to these systems. Suggest anything like this and people gnash their fucking teeth like a dog with their favourite chew toy, and now the team is so pot-committed to appeasing these folks that i don’t think there’s much hope for change, even if they did moderate their positions.
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Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I feel fucking attacked. My wife drives a Subaru and we only have Labradoodles, gotta keep grinding IRL, no time for MnM!
Agree with a lot of what you're saying but GASP what if we didn't have raids at all? Also every class gating is gayer than Batman & Robin
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Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I disagree. Moving around the world fucking blows. I started on fighter and then did elementalist. I have no desire to play a class that can't gate now.
It's one thing having to run back to town from 3 zones away. That sucks. Even worse is the end of a dungeon and everyone's ready to go, but now we need to fight our way out instead of everyone just gating out and calling it.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Hearthstones were one of the best things about Vanilla WoW, and would’ve been wonderful in EQ.
If you were a warrior deep in a dungeon and your playing session was ending but the rest of the groups wasn’t, you had to hope to hell you had a Wizard to TL you out. It was absurd. It was either that or just don’t give notice and don’t look for a rep (asshole) and force everyone to fight you out (asshole).
I’ll die on this hill.
PS no raids is fucking gay